| ▲ | nsm 5 hours ago |
| > The plain truth is that developers expect to get their tools free of charge. This is an accurate, but damning indictment of how some of the most highly paid workers on the planet won't pay for tools. Unlike nearly every other profession. Folks, if you can afford it, please pay for quality software, instead of relying on FAANG and VC money to keep the tools going! |
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| ▲ | OkayPhysicist 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The highest quality tools in the software development space tend to be FOSS, because unlike any other field, we are employed in the field that makes the tools our field uses, and distribution and manufacturing costs are zero. People build tools that they want to use, then share it with others because it's free to. If the rest of the economy worked like this we would be in full-blown utopia. Selling software to software developers is always going to have a pretty low ceiling, because you're always going to be competing with "I could build this myself" while dealing with a bunch of users who will have the nagging thought of "Why the heck does this bug exist/this feature not exist? I could fix this in an afternoon." Ironically, open source relieves this pressure for multiple orders of magnitude more people than actually contribute, because they're only grappling with their own laziness, rather than resenting you, the developer. |
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| ▲ | anonymous908213 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The highest quality tools in the software development space tend to be FOSS > People build tools that they want to use, then share it with others because it's free to This maybe sounds true on the surface, but isn't really? Prior to VSCode, Visual Studio was the most-used editor by professional developers for a very long time, with Sublime Text and Jetbrains' IDEs being close behind, and the paid options are still among the most popular. While VSCode is wildly successful, and has completely unprecedented adoption rates, it was not borne out of people "building tools because they want to, then sharing it because it's free", but is rather the result of Microsoft's calculated gamble that open-source would give them more ecosystem capture and useful data through telemetry in the long run. > Selling software to software developers is always going to have a pretty low ceiling, because you're always going to be competing with "I could build this myself" This shouldn't really be true if software developers would think rationally about tools for three seconds. I believe the US median compensation for developers is approaching $200k? Any tool that saves a single hour of productivity is likely paying for itself, maybe two or three for the more expensive ones. Something that saves 40 hours of productivity is basically worth its weight in gold. You might be able to say "I can build this myself", but can you build it yourself in 1 hour? 40 hours? For most software, it would still take even longer than that. If you are a paid professional, and value your own time anywhere near what your employer does (I personally value my time more than any employer ever did), you should be extremely grateful for any opportunity to spend trivial sums of money in a way that allows you to reclaim hours to use in other ways. | | |
| ▲ | nodja 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've been programming since ~1999 and anecdataly don't remember programmers having a culture of paying for their dev tools. On linux everything's free, and on windows I've used a plethora of freeware IDEs/compilers/etc. from turbo pascal, dev c++ (that's the name of it), later on eclipse took the stage in it's buggy mess and right before vscode there was atom. The only people that I know that used visual studio either got it for free for being a student/teacher, had their job pay for it, or most commonly: pirated it. According to this[1] site visual studio had a 35.6% marketshare, tied at #1 with notepad++. [1] https://asterisk.dynevor.org/editor-dominance.html | | |
| ▲ | anonymous908213 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > or most commonly: pirated it. Yes, I'm aware. That's the problem elucidated in the article. Developers expect everything for free, even though the price of tools relative to what they get paid to deliver products using those tools is completely trivial. This reluctance to pay for anything harms developers themselves most of all. If developers normalized a culture of paying for things they use, more developers would be able to develop their own independent software and sustain themselves without being beholden to $awful_corp_environment to pay the bills. But because developers will do anything they can to avoid paying <1 hr salary for a tool that saves them many hours, there is a huge gap between corporate professionals, who make lots of money, and open-source developers, most of whom make almost nothing, with only a relatively limited subset of independent developers able to bridge the gap and make a living producing good, non-corporate-nightmare software. I'm pretty pro-piracy for students and such. It is an extremely good thing for learning to be as available as possible, even to those in poverty, so that they can make something better of their situation and contribute more to society than if they were locked in to low-knowledge careers solely by virtue of the random chance of their upbringing. But people who make a living off software development never graduate from the mindset of piracy. Even for open-source software, the vast majority of users never contribute to funding those projects they rely on. If we think open-source software is good for the world, why are we so opposed to anyone being able to make a living creating it? The world's corporate capture by non-free software is a direct result of our own collective actions in refusing to pay anything for anything even when we can afford to. | |
| ▲ | wolpoli an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | While many hobbyists developer market, like the hobbyist graphic design market, pirated their tools, the corporate market did paid for their tools. The issue here is that they the developers aren't convincing their companies to pay for libraries now, partly because a lot of the tools are now free. | |
| ▲ | lmz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Turbo Pascal was not freeware when it was new. | |
| ▲ | msie an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, I've been programming since 1986 and I had to buy all the compilers I used. For the Mac: Lightspeed Pascal, Lightspeed C and Metrowerks. I wish I had the money to buy MPW. Linux then was just a glint in Linus's eyes. We didn't have the internet with easy access to pirated software. I didn't do BB's so I don't know about that area. Once I went to uni in the 90's I started using Usenet but even then I didn't download any pirated software. Microsoft was virtually giving away Visual Studio/Visual Basic to University students. Back then I also remember reading Linus' arguments with Tanenbaum over microkernels and this funny language called Python and its creator unveiling/supporting it on Usenet. Around that time more and more tools were being offered for free and as a poor student I was delighted. Also we got access to free Unix tools since as we were doing work on Unix systems. Oh yeah, I remembered using this cool functional language called Miranda in one of my courses but was sad that it was a paid product. And then I heard about the debut of Haskell which was sort of a free answer to Miranda. | |
| ▲ | pstuart 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Back in ye olden days, prior to teh interwebs, compilers were not free and it was an assumed price of entry to programming. Pirating has always been a thing, but I've paid for more than one compiler in my life and I wasn't exactly flush with cash. |
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| ▲ | palata 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I believe that there is a difference between developers as persons and developers as employees. As a person, I don't think that I am very likely to pay for the tool I use to develop in my free time. As an employee, I need to convince my company to pay for the tool. If it is a subscription, that's even worse. So well-known ones like Microsoft tools might already be approved, but for not-so-famous ones, it's harder. If I want to depend on a third-party library/tool, I need to convince my company that the licence is fine, that the security is fine, and if it's not free I need to convince them to pay for it. |
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| ▲ | andai 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > People build tools that they want to use, then share it with others because it's free to. If the rest of the economy worked like this we would be in full-blown utopia. Post-AGI economics seems to bring cost of production and distribution very close to zero, so this may soon come to pass. Culture might need a minute to catch up though! | |
| ▲ | d0liver 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Manufacturing costs are zero No. The fact that you built something yourself doesn't make it free to produce. More over, you __won't__. You simply cannot build all of the things that you could buy at scale. What if you had to write all of your own video games? Or operating systems? | | |
| ▲ | eucyclos 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think they mean cost of incremental units. 0->1 is much more expensive than 1->100 in software, unlike with things like lattes or houses |
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| ▲ | aembleton 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > you're always going to be competing with "I could build this myself" Even more so these days with agentic coding | |
| ▲ | NamlchakKhandro 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > distribution and manufacturing costs are zero. ???? citation needed | | |
| ▲ | tekne 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Once the software is written, it is ~free to copy. People pay a lot of money to avoid the software getting copied... and it gets copied anyways. | | |
| ▲ | stevefan1999 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The thing is that one software is easy to crack and copy, so it is cheap...but a lot of softwares to work together is not, so that's why we have SaaS and PaaS today. |
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| ▲ | yencabulator 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The fewer proprietary abandonwares are in my dependencies the more I can actually do things. It's less about the price and more about the freedom. From the link: > Beyond pricing, there’s a deeper concern about durability. Developers are understandably wary of building their entire app strategy on a small company’s paid, closed-source tool. |
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| ▲ | nsm 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Would you pay for source-available products? GPL and paid license? Along with a guarantee that you get to keep access to older versions (Jetbrains and Sublime Text models)? | | |
| ▲ | yencabulator 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If it's GPL, it's not really source-available anymore. The dual licensing thing is more to give big companies a cheaper way out than bothering their lawyers. Me personally, I treat source-available roughly the same as proprietary. I fix bugs in other people's code as suits my needs, and source-available is just hostile to the whole idea of anyone else touching the source. | |
| ▲ | cornstalks 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Would you pay for source-available products? GPL and paid license? I'm not GP but I would at least consider it. I say that as someone who refuses to build on closed-source tooling or libraries. I'd even consider closed-source if there was an irrevocable guarantee that the source would be released in its entirety (with a favorable open source license) if the license/pricing terms ever changed or the company ceased to exist or stopped supporting that product. > Along with a guarantee that you get to keep access to older versions (Jetbrains and Sublime Text models)? I like that for personal tools but I wouldn't build my products or business on top of those. I've had too much trouble getting old binaries to work on new OS versions to consider these binaries to be usable in the long term. | |
| ▲ | cortesoft 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Personally, probably not, although I would be more likely to than if I couldn't access the source. I just don't have a good history with software created and sold by a company. Their incentives rarely seem aligned with mine, and I have had too many rug-pulls to fall for it again. Companies that start out with sensible and open policies too often struggle to make money, and then end up trying to pull back on their openness and suddenly important bits aren't able to be modified or controlled by the user anymore. | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | alt187 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I love the lowkey vibe that if you want quality software, you either have to pay for it or wait for FAANG money. Just ignore the most widely used operating system! |
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| ▲ | johnfn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > some of the most highly paid workers on the planet won't pay for tools Aren't we in the middle of literally the entire industry adopting 200/mo AI subscriptions? It seems to me like engineers will absolutely pay for tools if they justify their value. |
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| ▲ | Aurornis an hour ago | parent [-] | | Every company I know is lamenting their out of control SaaS spend for developer tooling. $200/month/user isn’t a big incremental cost, to be honest. SaaS and subscription tooling costs are high for developers. |
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| ▲ | jchw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| To be completely fair, this becomes significantly less mystifying when you trace back the origins of the free software movement... edit: To be a bit less opaque, a relevant quote: > In the late 1970s, Richard Stallman had an issue with a new printer installed in the MIT AI Lab, where he worked at the time, which ran proprietary firmware. Richard Stallman was frustrated that he could not receive a copy of the printer software and edit the code to solve his problem. This early experience made him realize limits of non-free software was a social issue. Importantly: it was never about cost. It was about the rights of users of software. It's just that the particular rights that GNU was concerned with also makes it challenging to have a moat on monetizing the resulting software. |
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| ▲ | awesome_dude 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Importantly: it was never about cost. It was about the rights of users of software. The cost (free) got me looking, but the rights, now that's what kept me. Costs - being a poor student meant I was not ever in a position to pay for products (even those massively subsidised by companies like Microsoft) - there was no way I could buy an IDE, or a compiler, or anything that I needed to /learn/. Rights - once I had the products, I was able to see how they worked, and, more importantly, make changes that worked for me, and, if desired, share those changes so other people could take advantage of them. None of that was possible under the other licences. |
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| ▲ | nine_k 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is a wrong framing. I don't want to depend on anything fundamental that would be limited by my ability to pay. The problem is not the money, but the enforcement, the licensing. It usually implies closed source, problems provisioning (a separate license for CI/CD?), and ultimately stuff like hardware crypto keys and online checks. This is acceptable for highly specialized software with hundreds or even dozens of installations (like some mega-CAD systems). It should rather not be the case for smaller-time, widespread tools. It just doesn't work well, like the maker of Skip noticed. It stunts the development of the tool, making it impossible to meaningfully contribute. With that, I'm all for paying open-source developers: via donations, sponsorships, hiring them for contract work, or full-time. I'd like this to be a socially accepted norm, expected behavior for corporations, but not a legally enforced requirement. |
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| ▲ | thisislife2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| But, as the article points out, developers do pay for the tools indirectly - "First-party IDEs like Xcode and Android Studio, popular integration frameworks, and essential dev tools are all given away at no (direct) cost. The platform vendors monetize through developer program fees, app store commissions, and cloud services. Framework providers typically monetize through complementary services." And note that the article points out two other hurdles / drawbacks to adoption - their product required a subscription and developers are unwilling to commit to product from a small company that they fear may go under. |
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| ▲ | nsm 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is only true for a subset of software like mobile apps. Web developers are not paying for anything except compute. |
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| ▲ | GuB-42 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Software tools are not really tools like a knife. They are more like cooking recipes. Traditionally, people don't pay for cooking recipes, they may pay for cookbooks, that is a nice packaging around the recipes, or they may keep their recipes secret. Cooking recipes are like the software tools of chefs. The actual tools of developers are computers, which they pay for, like chefs pay for their knives. Software tools, like recipes cost nothing to copy and distribute, while actual tools, like knives and computers cost money per unit to produce. |
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| ▲ | didibus 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've paid for tools in the past, but I think there's a difference, the value of a lot of our tools isn't that great, but more importantly, there is a huge cost to adoption. Going in blind on a paid tool, putting in the time to learn and train yourself to use it, that's a high cost for something that you need to pay for entry and recurring after, that maybe 50 hours into it you start to realize you don't like it. When I've paid for tools, it tends to be a tool that was free for me to start using, that is now part of my workflow and I love, and I am worried it won't continue to be maintained or updated so I pay for it. |
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| ▲ | cortesoft 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's because open source tools are way better for software developers. I find quirks or bugs or limitations in my tools all the time, and when they are open source I can fix and augment the tools however I want, and I can share those changes with others. I can't do that for closed source software. Now, for most software users it doesn't really matter because they couldn't fix a bug or add a feature anyway. Closed and open source are functionally equivalent, and it makes more sense to pay for support and not care you can't change it yourself. I think this is kind of like cars; people who work on cars want to buy a car that doesn't have a bunch of electronic and proprietary parts that can't be worked on in their garage. On the other hand, people who won't work on their car anyway don't care. |
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| ▲ | ppeetteerr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Engineers are happy to pay for tools (hello, Claude Code). Libraries are quite different and it's a little uncomfortable to build a business on a closed-source, proprietary library. |
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| ▲ | NamlchakKhandro 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | No one pays for Claude Code, they pay a subscription to access the Claude Models. lmao who even unironcally uses claude code when other harnesses exist that eclipse them ? |
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| ▲ | vips7L an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Companies should be paying for tools not workers. |
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| ▲ | Aurornis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > This is an accurate, but damning indictment of how some of the most highly paid workers on the planet won't pay for tools. Unlike nearly every other profession. This is just plain false. The total software and SaaS tool spend at every company I’ve worked for in the past decade has been incredibly high. Developers also commonly bring their own paid tools when it’s allowed: JetBrains is common. Many people have paid Git GUIs or merge tools. I think the hard truth is that getting adoption on a new paid tool is really hard, especially when you’re not sure if it’s even going to be around in a couple years. When there are open source alternatives it’s usually not about cost. We’d happily pay for something that was higher quality and helped us develop faster if it didn’t come with its own set of risks. The difference is that OSS is something we can pick up and carry along with the community even if the maintainers go a different direction. We don’t have to worry about sudden license price increases or unfavorable terms appearing at renewal time, which happens constantly now. |
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| ▲ | RobotToaster 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In most lines of work it's standard for the employer to pay for tools, not the worker. If anyone is cheap it's the capitalist bosses. |
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| ▲ | keyle an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is a difference between paying and owning a tool, vs paying, and then the tool gets enshittified to hell and becomes unusable. I only buy licenses of software I can download the offline installer of; and a one time fee (per version is fine). |
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| ▲ | al_borland 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’ve paid for a few things for work, but I’m always living a bit outside of corporate rules when I do that. This makes it hard for me to justify if it’s only for work. In other cases, the licensing of the product doesn’t allow me to bring my personal license to work. I’ve paid for 2 text editors, that I used personally, but also took it to work. Now I use VS Code, because the company essentially mandated it with the way they rolled out GitHub Copilot and wanted to see metrics on it. This pushed me to VSCodium at home, so I don’t have to live 2 different worlds. I paid for the font I use in my editor, I assume that’s not something that will get flagged. Transmit (from Panic) and Kagi are the other two things I’m using at work with my personal account. I keep waiting for them to randomly stop working one day. Getting an actual license for software through work, that isn’t already approved, requires so much bureaucracy and red tape; I don’t even know where to begin. I sometimes daydream about working for myself or a small company, where I can use whatever I want. |
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| ▲ | ipnon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Paying for things that aren't worth it is noble, but not good economics in the long run. If people want to buy a tool not for what it produces but for the story it tells, this is fine. But just like startups need product-market fit, tools also need product-market fit, and if no one is buying, it could simply be that the alternatives are suitable replacements. |
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| ▲ | fragmede 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | In other markets, that is called dumping, and it is illegal. And in fact, Microsoft was convicted of being a monopolist and dumping. |
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| ▲ | HexDecOctBin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I agree. When people bemoan the death of lisp machines and RAD and whatnot, remember that we deserve it. We do not want to invest in good tools and treat "Worse is Better" as some twisted virtue, and then wonder why everything sucks and most developer experience is stuck in 80s-90s technology paradigm. We deserve this. |
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| ▲ | scotty79 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > damning indictment of how some of the most highly paid workers on the planet won't pay for tools I'm gonna pay for work. I'm not gonna pay for copy of some bytes. Especially not because lawyers say so. Figure out a business model that doesn't require you to put a policeman behind my back to make it work. It's not that hard. Steam has one. GOG has one. |
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| ▲ | tonyhart7 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| this is simply not true, in tech "free" software actually one of the most expensive software you can buy |