| |
| ▲ | jacquesm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty large. All this crap that wants to connect to the cloud from a country where your average citizen has very limited access to the internet should give you pause: if the Chinese government thinks these connections are A-ok then they must see some advantage, especially if all the services are supposedly free of charge. | | |
| ▲ | eru 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, [...] It goes even more for American built or American influenced hardware. | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Probably, yes, but this subthread is about war with China. | |
| ▲ | jopsen 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, but until this whole Greenland debacle few people would imagine a war with the US. |
| |
| ▲ | tehjoker 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved. | | |
| ▲ | ericmay 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hmmm, what’s your sample size? Which wars has China been involved with and how have they treated civilians? If Taiwan is invaded how do you think things will go if some number of Taiwanese people are defending the island mixed in with the local populace? Will the PLA call in an airstrike on an apartment with a sniper, or do you think they’ll go the hearts and minds route? Part of the problem with your statement here, in my view, is you’re suggesting that the United States or Israel’s “way of war” is. It the default, or that in comparison to how other countries treat civilians may actually be more humane. I don’t think there’s a large sample size, or any particularly strong evidence to suggest how China will treat civilians. And if you take into account how China has treated its own people, it’s not much better or worse than the United States. Maybe worst, actually, since Americans do have a legal right to protest. | |
| ▲ | anonzzzies 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | in case of war, you cannot know that; if they can blow up millions of phones or routers (setting houses on fire) or ignite cars? i agree with you that currently there would be no reason to even project such an image: better to win with trade and trinkets and dialog. I would say thats always the case but he ho. | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > China is much less likely to attack civilians. They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad. > Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I'm not projecting, merely being cautious. Besides, I have no illusion about either America or Israel doing something similar, especially not with their current upper cadre but this subthread is about China). > I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. I would imagine it isn't. See also: partnering with Putin in the war with Ukraine. > America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved. Yes, but they're not alone in that. | | |
| ▲ | eru 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, [...] Yes. > [...] I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad. Well, you can look at the history of the PRC so far. > I would imagine it isn't. See also: partnering with Putin in the war with Ukraine. It's not all that much of a partnership. They are mostly squeezing Russia dry with cheap oil, and press territorial concessions out of the Tsar in the East, when he's busy in the West. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | anonzzzies 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I do not think it is paranoia. But we can have this from anywhere. American devices, EU devices; if I cannot analyse the firmware, ICs etc, what is going to guarantee these are not remotely exploitable. Even if Porsche never built such a thing on purpose, the car is connected so someone can break in, hack it and do stuff including possible overhead the battery so it ignites. It does not have to be on purpose quality wise either: I had 2 spicy pillows in my life (and I have a lot of gadgets, including fully Chinese ones); a Samsung flagship phone and a macbook air. Both just unannounced got very hot and broke open: no fire but still... So I would say it is possible for a state actor to remotely hack, take over and ignite your Samsung and Macbook as apparently it can already almost happen without hackers. What to do about it? Without just fully open sourcing hardware and software, I do not know. I mean that would not help a lot if no one reads it and finds the issues/vulnerabilities, but at least we stand a chance, vs now. Unplugging from internet is not really a thing, although, when it comes to cars and airplanes i would rather see it mandatory non connected. | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | People don't realize that every device with a LiPo is only one (possibly malicious) update away from becoming a fuse. | | |
| ▲ | Liftyee 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Meh, often the LiPo protection logic is hardware based to prevent just this sort of mistake/sabotage. Some protection chips are software-configurable or reprogrammable, but the parameters are again limited (by design). Perhaps you could cause long-term damage by programming it to manage the battery poorly, like repeatedly charging/discharging it deeply. I think "every device" is just fearmongering. No software Apple/Huawei push could immediately make a phone or laptop combust. Electric cars, 3D printers, etc... I'm not so sure. | | |
| ▲ | anonzzzies 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You cannot (I don't know) use the cpu, gpu etc to overheat it quick enough, during charging, to get it over the threshold? But even if that is not possible, de-activation would he possible; finding a 0 day as nation state and using it to disable all iPhones currently connected in the US? |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | dathinab 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | it's not paranoia chips with backdoors which would allow exactly something like that (or many other things) have been found more then once in recent years AFIK through a fancy personal car stopping working is the least relevant target. Network backbone, smart phones, and other core infrastructure is a much more relevant target. And even for cars all the non-personal vehicles (e.g. ambulance, trucks, police ...) are much more relevant targets. | |
| ▲ | jazzyjackson 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Certainly anything that downloads over the air updates. I'm not mad that our government turned down import of EVs from a country that became an adversary | |
| ▲ | longitudinal93 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Disabling them is one thing. Having them auto-drive to select locations and self-immolate is another entirely. | |
| ▲ | wslh 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The reverse is clear for Chinese people. Do you remember when, in the early 2000s, the US sold a Boeing 767 intended for Chinese presidential use, and Chinese authorities later reported finding numerous hidden listening devices on board? There is a Chinese Wikipedia article about the incident [1], but no dedicated English one. More information in English can be found here [2]. [1] https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E6%B1%9F%E6%BE%A4%E6%B0%91%E... [2] https://www.flightglobal.com/chinese-vip-jet-was-bugged/4121... | |
| ▲ | mamp 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sadly, the US is more likely to at war with Europe than China |
|
