I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc.

Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that interview where he was just talking about the incredibly deep bench of industrial talent that you just can’t find outside China at this point - that labor cost wasn’t why they produced there.

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appplication 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The issue is not actual quality, it’s perceived quality. Chinese companies will fight decades of history and negative perception to reach top of the market consumers, a segment obsessed with perception.

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kjellsbells 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Then again, it's been done before.

- Japanese consumer goods were perceived as junk until the tipping point was reached, and then they were perceived as high-quality, easily equalling or surpassing Western goods. That took ~30 years (1950 to 1980, say). Older readers will recall the controversy over Akio Morita's (Morita-san being the founder of Sony) statements in the book "The Japan that can Say No" (edit: see [0]), which seems strangely prescient in the sense that it ignited a lot of (US) debate around dependence on foreign semiconductors.

- Then there was Taiwan, again, a 30 year cycle from about 1970 to 2000. Taiwan used to be known for cheap textiles, consumer dross, and suchlike. Not now...

My point is that the way to get better at products is to make them and make them and make them, and eventually an export-led country reaches a tipping point where the consumers flip over, and their perception changes.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Japan_That_Can_Say_No

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pixl97 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly, I grew up during the beginning if the Japanese auto boom in the US. My grandfather was one of the first people in his group to buy one of the Japanese cars when they became highly reliable and his friend heckled him about it for awhile. Until that is he wasn't constantly repairing the thing. It got much better gas mileage. Wasn't getting ate up by rust. And it ran well over 150k miles, when US cars typically fell apart before 100k miles.

	▲	bruce511 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Rinse and repeat for Korean cars. And now China are deep into their cycle too. They're already producing high quality, at half the price, and I've noticed that the quality narrative is changing. Regardless of where they are perception wise, the long term lesson is clear - local manufacturers may ride the "quality" bandwagon for a while, but ultimately it's a losing strategy. ICE cars, and manufacturers who don't gave an EV strategy are already inside their Kodak moment. It's fairly obvious that at some point "all" cars will be EV, just like "all" cameras are digital. Those who remain ICE only will fade into obscurity. Unfortunately the politicians in the US right now are driving a narrative away from EVs (and Tesla has become semi-toxic). Which in turn affects local manufacturers planning near term sales. By the time the mood swings it may be hard to catch up. Or maybe not. Maybe they come late to the party simply skipping a bunch of iterations, going straight to great, cheap, reliable. Time will tell I guess.

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closewith 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where are you based that you hold this impression? Because globally BYD is perceived as having much better build quality than Tesla, rightly or wrongly.

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itsthecourier 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

just got an etron because my partner wanted a xpeng, guy is super happy in that xpeng and I gotta say, he's right

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coredev_ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From what I've heard, the quality is pretty good. The problem is when something breaks, you can be waiting for (sometimes very expensive) parts for months while not being able to use your car.

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ehnto 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's not particularly unique amongst car manufacturers.

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Marsymars 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Maybe I got lucky, but I drove a 2011 model Ford from 2013-2025, and the worst part delay I experienced in that time was when they had to get next-day parts from a nearby city.

	▲	zdragnar 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's worth pointing out that the F150 has been the best selling truck for 40 years and the best selling consumer vehicle for most of them as well. There's bound to be plenty of parts for them sitting around. I've got one from 2011 that I'm still driving myself, and aside from one minor thing, I've not had a single problem with it, despite putting it through its paces.

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tharkun__ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're speaking of Tesla here, correct?

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IncreasePosts 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

it took Japan about 25 years of very directed industrial strategy to take the "made in Japan" label from indicating junk to the average American, to indicating a premium/reliable product. China might get there in even less than 25 years but you'll probably still find people holding onto old "chinesium" beliefs long after they should

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Marsymars 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A key for Japan is also that for various product categories, they don't export (or maybe manufacture at all - I'm just not really familiar with their non-export goods) low-quality goods - I assume because it isn't economical to compete at the low end of the market.

Even though China can compete at the top of many markets, they still also compete at the bottom, which taints their reputation.

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jacquesm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Japan never was a threat during that time to countries around it. China is very much a threat to other countries around it and I would feel pretty bad about materially financing yet another war.

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tmnvix 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm beginning to feel this way about the US. Much more comfortable with Chinese foreign policy at this point. At this point, going on the past 50 years or so, it would take something quite extraordinary on China's part to convince me they are going to abuse their power as much as the US has so far. Hopefully I'm not simply being naive.

	▲	bluGill 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You need to pay better attention. I hate what Trump is doing to US foriegn policy - but it is still better than China, and there is hope that things will change in the future as elections continue. China doesn't even have that hope. China is clearly supporting Russia in Ukraine. China is clearly making plans to invade Tiawas (that alone makes them just as bad as the US, even if it hasn't happened yet).

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woooooo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If we add up "damage to countries around it" in the previous hundred years, I think Japan doesn't look so great.

China conducted one several-week war against Vietnam and annexed Tibet, both over 50 years ago. Other than the longstanding dispute with Taiwan, who are they threatening? Some quibbles over a few Himalayan mountains with India?

	▲	jabl 23 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		They seem quite intent on inching their border closer to the Philippines mainland by building military bases on some shoals that belong to the Philippines.
	▲	fooker 35 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> Some quibbles Two wars.

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idiotsecant 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Haha that little 'during that time' is doing some heavy lifting there. You don't think there might have been some slight lingering resentment and fear that the slouching monster that Japan was during WWII would come back? I think Japan's neighbors might have felt 'pretty bad' too, but it didn't matter. In the end the money wins.