| ▲ | sklargh 5 hours ago |
| I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens and lose all the glorious physical buttons and I don’t even have a fun engine rumble to make up for it? So, the cars are ugly and uncool (I grant a matter of taste), aren’t selling in their target market (China) won’t sell meaningfully in their backup market (US) and they’re behind GM, Tesla and BYD in all regards on quality of life stuff. Not a recipe for endurance. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| There's only one real Porsche, a gasoline-engined 911. |
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| ▲ | randerson an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one. As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake electric sport sound played through the speakers does nothing for me. I'd have probably bought it at $75K, but at $125K it needs to be more special. Especially considering the rate at which they depreciate. Its not a surprise to me that their EVs aren't selling as well as hoped. The Taycan sure is pretty though. |
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| ▲ | qiqitori 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Nissan Sakura (which probably doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles either). Now I kinda wish my Prius had a 3.5mm aux-in jack but I get by with an FM transmitter. |
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| ▲ | kulahan 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Reverse actions” feature, where you press a button after very carefully getting into a spot, and the car replays it in reverse to get you out of said spot 5. Lots of remote features tied to an app. The ability to look through cameras, auto-record videos when people get close, lock and unlock and view status of the car. Remote tracking via GPS in case it’s stolen. 6. Turn on your turn signal, your dash changes to a live video feed of that side of the car 7. Chairs with heating and cooling, massaging, and auto-inertia-damping features 8. Bluetooth and Apple CarPlay plus Android auto 9. Road-scanning cameras which adjust suspension live based on upcoming road conditions 10. Crash preparation features like Benz’s Pink Noise or auto-recording a minute of video to assist with crash investigations There are probably may I’m forgetting. | | |
| ▲ | drnick1 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > 5. Lots of remote features tied to an app. The ability to look through cameras, auto-record videos when people get close, lock and unlock and view status of the car. Remote tracking via GPS in case it’s stolen. This is akin to spyware, since inevitably it is a cloud service using an onboard cellular modem. I would personally rather have none of 1-10. What I do want in a high-end vehicle is things that are there for my benefit (heated steering wheel, heated/ventilated seats, spacious cupholders, etc.) not the manufacturer's. | |
| ▲ | jjmarr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have 1 and 8 on my cheap RAV4 from 7 years ago. Heated seats too. | |
| ▲ | charlie0 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Lol, 1 to 4 is just called "knowing how to drive". These cameras aren't a serious value add unless you're driving a massive tank, err car. | | |
| ▲ | kingstnap 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Backup cameras have been legally required on new vehicles for like a decade. It is well understood to prevent accidents. There are hundreds of millions of drivers with new ones entering and old ones exiting the roads all the time. If you want to practically improve safety you have to make the vehicles safer, you can't just hope pointing fingers at bad drivers is gonna do anything. | |
| ▲ | com2kid 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The rear window in trucks and SUVs is above the head height of a small child. w/o a backup camera there is literally no way to see if a small child is behind you. So many parents ran over their own child that backup cameras are now mandatory in the US. | | |
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| ▲ | vpribish 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | huh. I don't want any of those things and i do have a porsche. | |
| ▲ | itsthecourier 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | saw an xpeng playing music outside the car, not inside, for beach parties and, this is not a joke, truly: the seat gave me a massage. |
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| ▲ | sklargh 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think a few things. 1. They do not have robust self-driving capability. At this level of expense I expect hands-free major highway driving. 2. They’ve removed a lot of physical buttons that improve quality of life, the level of technology in the cabin is simply overwhelming. 3. They’ve done a great job with the driving experience of the EVs but they have poor range relative to the competition. | | |
| ▲ | astrojams 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have a 2022 Porsche 911. It has a lot of physical controls for things in the cabin like climate control, suspension settings, cruise control, dashboard view, and audio. The car also has an auto steer and cruise control option which will accelerate and brake for you while also keeping the car in the lane. It can go from a stop to whatever speed you set it to. It’s great for traffic on the highway. That’s not too shabby for a 2022 non EV car. Current model Mercedes have level 4 driving automation where you can take your eyes off the road. I don’t think Tesla even has this level of driving automation yet. | | |
| ▲ | the_pwner224 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > That’s not too shabby for a 2022 non EV car It very much is! (no offense) And EV vs ICE doesn't make a difference, the manufacturers put the same ADAS systems regardless of the powertrain. BMW has had radar cruise control + lane keeping since 2016 I think? In 2019 they added full hands-free operation in highway traffic (up to 40 mph) as well as auto lane change when you tap the turn signal. In 2023 they have full hands free up to 85 mph on highways, plus auto lane change w/ navigation integration and auto-overtaking (car promps you to check the mirror, then changes lane completely touchless). A frickin' 2020 Honda Civic has the same ADAS functionality as your '22 Porsche, even on the base trim ($21k). Porsche is way, way behind. And that's before you even get to all of the non-ADAS drivers assistance systems for parking, reversing, etc., which again the other Germans trash Porsche on. |
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| ▲ | dboreham 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Porsche buyers don't want self driving. The button thing is industry wide MBA group think that is being walked back. Their haptic buttons are actually not bad. Car manufacturers are shit at software, presumably because they don't feel the need to pay top euro for talent. Again an industry wide syndrome. Heck GM think it's smart to delete Apple carplay from their vehicles. The only electronics feature all buyers want. | |
| ▲ | dineol 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I hate touch/sensor buttons and sliders. Give me back my physical buttons and spinning controls. Also, same for electrical speedometers/tachometers, etc |
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| ▲ | jayknight 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | See this MKBHD video for an idea of features in Chinese EVs. https://youtu.be/Mb6H7trzMfI | | |
| ▲ | qiqitori 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Watched it! I know it's from a US perspective, but where I live (Japan), $42000 is quite a lot! Definitely premium car territory. (E.g., Lexus RX base model) IMO the car has a lot of bells and whistles that many drivers (probably!) don't really care about. But I guess car fans like this kind of stuff. The active noise cancelling feature might be nice, but wouldn't be surprised if we see regulation on that matter at some point. You kind of need to be alert of your surroundings, etc. |
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| ▲ | bravoetch 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't want to make an exhaustive list, the summary is that standard features on many new cars are expensive options on Porsche's. And that's if they're available at all. Adaptive cruise control is one example. Where I live, luxury cars are just status now. I don't think that's enough to keep gen Z and gen A interested. | |
| ▲ | djd20 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Clearly porsche is missing the built in karaoke. |
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| ▲ | asdff 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What is crazy about some of these old car brands is that they have some IP that would sell like hotcakes. Aircooled 911s went from 30k cars to 130k cars on the used market over the last 10 years. If they managed to work around crash regulations, maybe with some stroking of Donalds ego right now, they'd be making money hand over fist off those old designs. I can't exactly remember the situation but I'm pretty sure there was a car company that did something like this in recent history, restarting a production run on a classic model and selling it out. |
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| ▲ | tucnak 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| SuperfastMatt is buying a Cayman! I think they will be fine... https://youtu.be/rkXqKfYRJD0 |
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| ▲ | GlacierFox 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| EV cars are mostly just appliances now. Not sure how the prestigious Porsche badge (or any other really) can stand out into the future. |
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| ▲ | netsharc 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| There's probably still plenty of value in the name, who knows if the audience who are impressed if you say "I've got a Porsche" vs "I got a Zeekr/BYD/Xiaomi" is growing or shrinking, if it shrinks fast enough, then Porsche is in trouble. It's like bragging about having a Hermes bag vs a Temu brand bag. Yeah it's all irrational, but if the world was a rational place we'd not have a man-child threatening wars and invasion because he didn't get the peace prize he wanted... |
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