| ▲ | Police Invested Millions in Shadowy Phone-Tracking Software Won't Say How Used(texasobserver.org) |
| 187 points by nobody9999 4 hours ago | 44 comments |
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| ▲ | jadenpeterson 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Why are they comfortable saying this? > Generally, Boyd said his office uses the software to find “avenues for obtaining probable cause” or “to verify reasonable suspicion that you already have”—not as a basis by itself to make arrests. As if that's not a massive violation of our rights in and of itself. This is my fundamental problem with the internet. As much as stories like these gain traction, as many millions of redditors protest these increasingly common stories (for example, the suspicious nature of Luigi Mangione being 'reported' in that McDonalds), nothing will change. Perhaps this is the part of the criminal justice system I am most suspect of. Is this what happens in a country with less regulation? |
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| ▲ | topspin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Why are they comfortable saying this? They receive recognition for the results. Phone data was used in a large fraction of the cases against rioters in the 2021 capital attack. The Powers That Be were grateful that law enforcement were able to use phone data to either initially identify attackers or corroborate other evidence, and ultimately put people in prison. The justice system makes cases with this every day, and the victims of criminals are thankful for these results. | | |
| ▲ | prophesi 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I've heard a lot more recognition for Apple refusing to comply with unlocking iPhones over the years than any of these other cases. | |
| ▲ | wavefunction an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | appeal to emotion |
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| ▲ | alex_young 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The interesting part here is that they are apparently no longer even trying to use parallel construction [0] to cover this stuff up. They somehow feel confident that just saying we have this technology, we don’t say how we use it, but we wind up on the right trail and then gather some evidence down the road we wound up on somehow. Seems shaky at best. Smells of hubris. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction | |
| ▲ | titanomachy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Was that suspicious? I thought his face was plastered all over the news. |
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| ▲ | cdrnsf 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Don’t trust the cops, don’t trust the wealthy. Cops will abuse you, wealthy will exploit you. |
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| ▲ | antidamage 2 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Pre-crime: powered by Grok Analysis |
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| ▲ | 1a527dd5 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sounds a lot like 'parallel construction'. |
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| ▲ | fuzzythinker an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I didn't know about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction | |
| ▲ | HNisCIS 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah seems like that's quite explicitly the goal. The question is, what means or method are they trying to hide and is it hyper illegal or just something they don't want to be pubic knowledge? | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 32 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Both. It’s both hyper illegal and they don’t want you to know how they do it. It’s Pegasus 2.0 |
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| ▲ | plagiarist 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It turns out it's actually fine if your data is on offer to the government from a third party. The Constitution was meant to be permanently fixed and extremely literal about only the technology available from centuries ago, it was not meant to describe general concepts nor intended to be updated to ensure those same rights are retained along with changes in society. | | |
| ▲ | gruez 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >The Constitution was meant to be permanently fixed and extremely literal about only the technology available from centuries ago, it was not meant to describe general concepts nor intended to be updated to ensure those same rights are retained along with changes in society. /s? I can't tell because people unironically use the same reasoning to make the "2nd amendment only apply to muskets" argument. | | |
| ▲ | collingreen 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That isn't the muskets version of that argument I have heard. The version I've heard is that the firearm technology when the second amendment was ratified was very different than today and that makes it worth evaluating if we want to amend it again. Similarly the military landscape looks very different as well such that there's a very different risk of foreign armies taking ground and citizens everywhere needing to be ready to hold ground until the more official military forces can arrive. If we want to get really pedantic about 2A where are the well regulated militias? Even if someone really is saying the thing you're claiming, 2A doesn't mention muskets at all or any other specific technology so that would be a really dumb thing for those people to say. | | |
| ▲ | Terr_ an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | When the second amendment was passed, a "well-regulated militia" was already a thing people did, required and defined by the Articles of Confederation. On one hand, it was controlled and funded by the state, not just random citizens. On the other, the weaponry supplied included horse-drawn cannons, not just "home defense" stuff. | | |
| ▲ | bee_rider 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | We’re obviously failing the expectations of the founding fathers if we don’t have civilian owned HIMARS. |
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| ▲ | potato3732842 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > where are the well regulated militias? They keep getting arrested because some fed informants show up and convince them to kidnap a governor of whatever before they can become "Well regulated". | |
| ▲ | AndrewKemendo an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The State Guards are the militias For example the Texas Guard: https://tmd.texas.gov/army-guard Not that I’d ever want them near anything useful but that’s the answer | | |
| ▲ | esseph 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Incorrect, that would be the: https://tmd.texas.gov/state-guard ;) they are NOT the National Guard. They are the militia of Texas. (Texas State Guard aka TXSG). Subordinate to the state gov, only. However TX considers it more complicated than that: The Organized Militia: Consisting of the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. The Unorganized Militia: This consists of all "able-bodied" residents of the state who are at least 18 but under 45 years of age and are not members of the organized militia. |
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| ▲ | artyom an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My bet is they couldn't get past the InstallShield wizard. |
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| ▲ | thedangler 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Isn’t this type of software illegal? If I went to try and sell it , I’d be arrested. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is like asking Google why they banned your account for fraud. Secrecy is important for slowing down bad actors. |
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| ▲ | kart23 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| the example at the top of the article isn’t exactly the best example to show people why this software shouldn’t be allowed. they could go to the liquor store, and ask them to pull cameras, and with a warrant if needed. it just seems more powerful to say this software is useless and wasting taxpayer money. but also, who is supplying location data to tangles? saying the ‘dark web’ is not helpful or informational, and honestly if the cops are just buying location data there’s nothing illegal about the search, because it’s not a search. you willingly provided your location data to this company who is then selling it, your beef is with them to stop selling your data if it’s not in their privacy policy. it smells like they’re just using social media and claiming they have this huge database on peoples locations. this sounds like a huge nothing burger to me. |
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| ▲ | djeastm 26 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If it's on the dark web isn't it also possible that it's hacked phone records? Seems like a nice way to bypass getting a warrant. Step 1, make sure hackers know you're in the market for phone company data. Step 2, hackers do their thing and sell it on the dark web. Step 3, police use intermediate tool like Tangles to "obtain probably cause" and "verify reasonable suspicion" based on the hacked records and focus their searches, all without any judge's say-so. | | |
| ▲ | kart23 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | didn’t it say fresh receipt? how would tangles have live data from hacked phone records? also, yeah in that your phone company is at fault for violating your privacy. Agree that using hacked sources is unethical and shouldn’t be done, but is there an actual law against law enforcement using hacked data? reporters can legally publish hacked sources. |
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| ▲ | cluckindan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You remember those cookie notices that you clicked on? Whatever you ”chose” to click, this kinda thing is where your data ended up getting ”processed”, irrespective of your ”privacy choices”. |
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| ▲ | nobody9999 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Title too long for submission. Original title: Texas Police Invested Millions in a Shadowy Phone-Tracking Software. They Won’t Say How They’ve Used It. |
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| ▲ | BarryMilo 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Truly a "why say many words" title! | |
| ▲ | ronsor 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Texas Police Won't Say How Used Shadowy Phone-Tracking Software Millions Spent On"? |
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| ▲ | therobots927 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| We’re all just characters in a sim game played by the rich and powerful. Now it’s 24 / 7 surveillance. Eventually it will be 24 / 7 control. |
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| ▲ | HNisCIS 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The race is between the rich trying to achieve a level of surveillance based omnipotence such that rebellion/revolution/dissent/protest/etc are fundamentally impossible...and the US populace gaining class consciousness. I don't have high hopes for the second one winning. I want people to think about that for a second though. Imagine in a decade cops have such a technological edge in both surveillance and force that you cannot even begin to protest billionaires enslaving you let alone stage a political revolution. | | |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I hate the concept. But this is not the right case to test the tool against. |
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| ▲ | nobody9999 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >I hate the concept. But this is not the right case to test the tool against. To which case are you referring? TFA doesn't appear to refer to any ongoing litigation associated with the "Tangles" software. Or are you referring to warrantless geo-fence tracking as a poor use case for the software? | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > which case are you referring? The example given at the top of the article. We want Tangle or whatever used idiotically to strike down its use in federal court. | |
| ▲ | nilamo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Tracking the population without cause is never the right use case for anything. | | |
| ▲ | asdff 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Transit and traffic planners would be foaming at the mouth for real commute data like this instead of just fixed point count data. | | | |
| ▲ | nobody9999 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Tracking the population without cause is never the right use case for anything. Agreed. Which is why I submitted this in the first place. But AFAICT, it's orthogonal to GP's comment. Or not. Which is why I asked for clarification. |
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