> How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide.

Oh no, it absolutely is. Societies have laws, and even just social norms, that don't stop applying "outdoors". Unless you're in the ocean, I suppose.

Pack out what you pack in. Stay on the trail. No loudspeakers. Very simple.

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BeetleB 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Of the three you mention, only one is the law in every public land place I've hiked.[1]

Staying on the trail is mostly a suggestion for your safety (and to preserve the area) - definitely not a law.

Ditto for loudspeakers. People often go into nature and throw concerts.

[1] OK - trails in state parks and perhaps some national parks likely have more rules. But trails in general public lands (BLM, forest, etc)? Not many.

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dpark 10 hours ago | parent [-]

This is willful misreading. They specifically also said “social norms”.

This “it’s not technically illegal so it’s not a problem” sentiment is unhealthy for civil societies. I for one would like basic social norms to be respected without law-enforcement being involved.

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BeetleB 9 hours ago | parent [-]

I was pointing out the pointlessness of invoking "laws" in this scenario. I'm not the one that brought it into the conversation.

As for social norms, one only has to read the comments to understand that there clearly isn't consensus on this point. People go to nature for many reasons - not all related to enjoying the sounds of nature. What dylan604 is pointing out is to be mindful of that.

	▲	dpkirchner 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		There are a lot of people who are loud about not wanting to follow social norms (which is expected when we're talking about people rudely being loud, I guess). It seems to be a point of pride. I don't get it but I've definitely seen it.

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groby_b 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

100%

I'd argue that unspoken rules apply even more strongly in actual outdoors setting, because a good number of those norms actually have serious consequences when violated. Anybody seriously hiking or offroading gets to save a non-zero number of behinds of people who ignored those rules, every single year.

And they also know they need to rely on those rules, because they might get them out of trouble too. The outdoors is not always friendly.

The "No speakers" thing is just the "let's try not be an ass to the same person who might need to pull me out of a ravine next" part of the rules.

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devin 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I can assure you some of them also very much apply in the ocean.