| ▲ | cush 13 hours ago |
| The number of comments in here slandering the developer’s morality for picking locks is actually pretty surprising for a site literally called Hacker News. Every day there’s a story on the front page of some grey/white-hat showing off an exploit they found to infiltrate a site we all use. It’s an odd double standard. |
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| ▲ | raincole 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > the number of comments Two of them in total, if I counted right. |
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| ▲ | dormento 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Still astounding in a place where "hackers" congregate. | | |
| ▲ | fragmede 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not really. Two is not a large number of comments. Turn on showdead in your profile and see the dreck that most users never see. | |
| ▲ | stackghost 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This place lost its hacker lustre at least 10 years ago. I registered my first account in 2011 or so and even then it had plenty of "pro-big corporate" energy here. | | |
| ▲ | daveguy 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's a site that was founded and run by venture capitalists. It always had "pro-big corporate" energy. If for nothing else, because that's one of the potential exit strategies. | | |
| ▲ | stackghost 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I know but there was a "hacker spirit" undercurrent that's been diminished of late, I feel | | |
| ▲ | hk__2 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Meh, when I registered in 2012 people were writing the same thing. |
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| ▲ | BrandoElFollito 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Picking locks is a tradition in hacking. So morality is already off the table. Except if this is to save a cat - the offical reason for lockpicking in the 90s. Now, the robot is hardly something you put together between dessert and coffee. Someone building this must have a live for hardware and lockpicking is just a pretext. And think about the cats! |
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| ▲ | Alive-in-2025 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Does anyone even know about the classic MIT Guide to Lockpicking? Back in the day, it was so entertaining to come across this while in grad school and enjoying reading it instead of working on actual work. We are made to be technical tinkerers, playing with tech, seeing if sending that input to that program will crash it. I see it not as a moral issue but as a technical skill, to understand how to work with systems, explore what doesn't work. That way you gain skills in how to make things work better. |
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| ▲ | johnfn 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| But that isn't what "Hacker" means. Take it from pg, who named the site, 15 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1648199 > In the sense of the word that means people who write code, not people who break into things |
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| ▲ | schmuckonwheels 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You must be mistaken. This site stopped being Startup News just like Facebook became the 'metaverse' overnight. |
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| ▲ | pixl97 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I mean, you tend to see this everywhere. Hopefully these people do realize that a lock is a promise saying "you belong to a society, be nice". They do very little beyond that, especially these days with small, powerful powertools. |
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| ▲ | sandworm101 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >> these days with small, powerful powertools. Maybe when attacking a padlock on a highschool locker, or the door on an amazon-basics "safe", but try attacking something not primarily designed to be cheap/light. Try cracking the door on a money safe at a substantial business, a safe approved by an insurance provider for the storage of large sums, Even an ATM will resist power tools far longer than it will take the cops to show up. | | |
| ▲ | TeMPOraL 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Even an ATM will resist power tools far longer than it will take the cops to show up. It'll also spit in your face with a paint that's incredibly hard to wash off. |
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| ▲ | pipes 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I "belong" to a society? That suggests that a group owns me. Hrm I'm probably nit picking, but the idea of a society owning me isn't something I agree with. Also I'm free to leave. | | |
| ▲ | scubbo 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is linguistic nonsense on a par with disliking the phrase "my spouse" because it implies ownership. You can easily talk of "my country" or "my university" without claiming ownership, just as one can talk of "a sense of belonging" or of "belonging to a club" without feeling owned. Words have several meanings. | | |
| ▲ | pipes 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yet, if I said my wife belonged to me I think I would get a few rebukes. | | |
| ▲ | cush 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why not just have a conversation in good faith? Instead of assuming the person you're chatting with is talking about slavery, and then when they clarify they're not talking about slavery, and you saying that it could be about slavery, you could just as easily say, "oh I misunderstood you". Sometimes humans have misunderstandings. Languages are messy. Just let it go. | | |
| ▲ | Dilettante_ 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They didn't misunderstand, they challenged the phrasing. Some people believe that words have power and language matters(or at least are entertaining the idea). | |
| ▲ | pipes 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I haven't made any assumptions at all, reread what I said, then reread the replies. First one is a personal attack about being libertarian (an assumption), second one starts off as an attack too. I expressed a preference, in a light hearted way, hence the "hrm...". I come here for good faith debate and I'm genuinely grateful for it (I've said as much in other comments). |
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| ▲ | burkaman 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Right, because that's a completely different sentence with a completely different meaning. |
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| ▲ | TeMPOraL 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Would phrasing it as "your parents sold you into society" be more accurate for you? | |
| ▲ | sandworm101 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >> the idea of a society owning me isn't something I agree with. Your agreement is irrelevant. Have you registered for selective service? Paid taxes? Have a drivers license? Check youtube for "sovcit traffic stop" to see what happens when people think they can live independent from the rest of society. The Amish must obey traffic laws just like everyone else. >> Also I'm free to leave. Nope. Many an american has fled to canada to avoid taxes/draft/jail. They are caught eventually. Citizenship is not property. You cannot just set it aside when you dont agree with its obligations. There is a process for leaving. It isnt short, easy, cheap or in any way guaranteed. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | tacone 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > [Danger: Libertarian detected, rational communications may not work] The parity bit gets immediately unreliable. | |
| ▲ | pipes 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not a libertarian, heck I even think property rights aren't a right, they are a service provided by the the state. | | |
| ▲ | pineaux 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | all rights are provided by a state or hegemon. Some rights are harder to take away than others. Some are easier.
the hegemon does not need to be defined. |
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| ▲ | stackghost 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You live in a country with laws. You pay taxes. You can be put in prison. They both literally and figuratively own your ass. You're free to leave only if another country accepts you which is not a given. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >Every day there’s a story on the front page of some grey/white-hat showing off an exploit they found to infiltrate a site we all use. This is not true. |
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| ▲ | keybored 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| The title of this website is literally in another sense than white/grey/black hacker. |
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| ▲ | ghurtado 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Originally the word "hacker" made no distinction between the two meanings. This site is pretty old, so you're right, it was intended in the original "Kevin Mitnik" sense (the original hacker, who ironically would fall outside of the modern definition) The modern acception focused on online computer security came much later. That meaning is neither the one used in the name of this site nor the one that would be relevant to this conversation. To summarize: today's hackers are also yesterday's hackers, but yesterday's hackers may or may not be modern hackers. | | |
| ▲ | pohl 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Mitnik is in no sense “the original hacker”. Ever heard of Cap’n Crunch? | |
| ▲ | edgineer 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Guinness book of world records listed Kevin as the world's most notorious hacker, not the first. They did retract they record for its lack of objectivity. |
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| ▲ | Rebelgecko 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Lock picking falls under jargon files definition of "hack" imo | |
| ▲ | cloudfudge 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If I never hear nerds bicker over the various meanings of the word 'hacker' again, it will be too soon. | | |
| ▲ | johnfn 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Literally from the horse's mouth, 15 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1648199 > In the sense of the word that means people who write code, not people who break into things It would be like if you were going over a list of pros and cons and when you got to the cons some guy was like "wow, you work with criminals, huh?" Then you tell him not that sort of con and he says "yeah, typical nerd bickering". C'mon. | | |
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| ▲ | f1shy 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Lockpicking can also be in that colors, AFAIK. | |
| ▲ | wat10000 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Definition 7 from the Jargon File: "One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations." | | |
| ▲ | _0ffh 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I went to hacker events where someone would sell lock-picking tools and practice locks like it's the most natural thing in the world. | |
| ▲ | keybored 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Mr. judge I’m not a black hat hacker. I’m a person, one of such nature who enjoys creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. Pick a fight with a room full of pedants snicker snicker. |
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