| ▲ | publicdebates 7 hours ago |
| I'm also in this group, so I have a few theories as to what causes it and how to fix it. For one thing, I was severely traumatized as a kid, which delayed a lot of my social skills. I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. When my social battery is full, I can do pretty well, but if I'm even a little down, it's basically impossible to act normally. I also had it hammered into me as a kid that nobody wants me around, nobody could ever love me, I'm a failure, a burden, a creep, a weirdo, and nothing but a bothersome nuisance that nobody would ever want to spend 30 seconds alone with. I'm trying to reject these thoughts, but it's difficult when you have nobody to talk to. It's like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. I wonder how many people have the same issue. I've made a few friends in person, but I rarely get to see them. Well I've started doing public surveys in my nearby big city, and documenting the results. I just hold out a posterboard that says "how alone do you feel"[1] or "have you ever been in love" etc, and hold out a marker, and people come up and take the survey. At first I did this out of sheer loneliness and boredom. But I have done it for enough months that some people have come up to me and told me that I've helped them, or that they look forward to my signs. I'm trying to reach those people who feel the way I feel have no way of connecting with anyone, or at least feel that they don't. Do you have any new ideas of how to achieve this? [1] https://chicagosignguy.com/blog/how-alone-do-you-feel.html |
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| ▲ | soulofmischief 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Hey, I love you. Since I was a small child, my grandfather used to beat me savagely and shake me and pin me to the ground, screaming that the devil was inside of me and that I would never be capable of loving or being loved. This was literally beaten into me. He'd beat me with the buckle end of the belt, like a whip, hitting my face, arms, whatever he could. He'd keep beating me until I couldn't cry anymore, telling me that men are not supposed to cry, and that it was his responsibility to teach me not to cry. I flashback at least once a day to it. But, he was wrong. I love a lot. So much that sometimes it's unbearable. I cry all the time. Sometimes out of pure love for someone. And there are people who I think love me. Of course the doubt is permanently sewn in. But my heart goes out to you, seriously. I love you just for existing and being yourself, and I hope you're okay. We're not alone. Email's in my bio if you ever want to talk. |
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| ▲ | airstrike an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I just want to say thanks for sharing your burden and how you were able to overcome it so others can be inspired. I feel like nowadays people are really encouraged to never display any vulnerability. It goes totally against the hype and hustle culture of the attention economy. To do that so candidly takes a lot of courage and confidence, and that's really impressive. I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm glad you're doing well. And if that doubt ever seeps into your thoughts, remember they were full of shit and you're absolutely capable of loving and being loved. | |
| ▲ | publicdebates 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I appreciate the sentiment, but knowing that it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end. That's actually the exact problem I'm facing, so it's incredibly relevant. A year ago, I was talking to the local Catholic priest (I was donating some religious statues that I had effectively inherited), and it came up in conversation that I was going through a rough time. He went in for a hug, and it felt so absolutely empty and disingenuous. I accepted it merely to avoid a scene, but it was absolutely not welcome or meaningful. When I'm out in the city, I want to reach out to those people who put that they feel "100%" alone just like I do. I wrote in the article some of my thoughts and feelings on this, and some things I tried and didn't try. But ultimately, that's the gap I want to bridge now. We have a thing in common. How do we go from there? (Not you and me, but me and a stranger who has the same problem as me that they want to solve.) What do I say next? What's the next thing we can do in that interaction, or maybe a later one if I ever see them again? This is my question to myself, what I'm wondering in this whole post. | | |
| ▲ | soulofmischief 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > knowing that it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality That's not the point of empathy and not the point of my outreach. I don't need to know you precisely or be within a certain proximity in order to empathize with you. > A year ago, I was talking to the local Catholic priest (I was donating some religious statues that I had effectively inherited), and it came up in conversation that I was going through a rough time. He went in for a hug, and it felt so absolutely empty and disingenuous. For what it's worth, the man who did these things to me was a Catholic deacon, and the hypocrisy is blood-boiling. He would give very pleasant-sounding homilies about love, acceptance, patience and understanding, and then come home and savagely beat and torture me through physically painful punishments and extended periods of isolation. I would not go to a Catholic leader if you are looking for surefire genuinity. The institution attracts performative, power-seeking individuals. > What do I say next? What's the next thing we can do in that interaction, or maybe a later one if I ever see them again? It's a combination of bridging and bonding. Meeting individuals, like myself or a stranger on the street, and learning that you have something in common which provides substrate for conversation and communication through a shared experience, is bridging. Developing those relationships by building around that core is bonding. We typically bond contextually: We both go to the same school or office and see each other daily, or we run into each other at the store each week, etc. I once ended up becoming best friends and living with someone who was my cashier at Trader Joes. Instead of telling me our personalities and experiences have nothing to do with each other, we could discuss our experiences, find commonalities that are more than surface-level, and bond over those. I've met great people on this website. I've met some of them in person. Friends are all over the place, hiding in plain sight. | |
| ▲ | seneca 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end. Man, well said. People who "over engage" are doing it out of a sense of kindness, but you're right that it feels hollow and is really just about them. I think the solution to this is basically what you're doing. Build small connections via whatever engagement mechanism you can and let them organically grow into meaningful ones. Jumping from zero to pretending you have a meaningful connection is exactly why those gestures feel hollow. There is no shortcut, it takes time. Sounds like you're making those initial connections with your signs, which I think is great. | | |
| ▲ | sailfast 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Not a doctor or anything, but what happens if you check your assumptions about someone's actions being hollow or making it about them and consider that they actually want to support you and show you love or empathy as a possibility? Removing some of our own defensive layers might be a first step - though I understand how difficult that can be since we've been burned so many times and they layers are there for a reason! | |
| ▲ | soulofmischief 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can assure you that there was nothing performative or hollow about my comment. OP said something that resonated with me, and so I shared my story in an attempt to bridge and find commonalities. It's possible you are just projecting biases onto my comment. I'm not sure what "over-engaging" is, but you're free to ignore my comment if you feel that it was too personal or too long. I don't however, understand the contempt, or insinuations that I am attempting to take some kind of shortcut with personal connection. You can connect quickly with strangers if both parties are receptive. And as I just mentioned to OP, I have made life-long friends from this site, who I have met multiple times in person. I reach out to people often, and people often reach out to me, over email. That is why I shared my story and mentioned to OP that my inbox was open: to develop or at least explore a possible connection. This is as intentional as it gets with making connections, but your priors are causing you to misunderstand my intentions and paint my comment in an insultingly negative light. | | |
| ▲ | uxcolumbo 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I read your story you shared here. Fkn hell is all I can say. That you survived this as a kid is kind of a miracle. I admire your strength. How as a kid did you escape the brainwashing? Regarding the replies above, they might be referring to how you can say “I love you” even though you don’t really know them. Just a guess. I’m glad you made it out and that you’re now trying to help others. |
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| ▲ | srean 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I am always in awe when people are able to manage such an unsavoury baggage. That's some tough going. | |
| ▲ | o-o- an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I... what did I just read?! How. On. Earth. did you turn yourself around with those pre-conditions?? | | |
| ▲ | soulofmischief an hour ago | parent [-] | | Predominantly, rejecting all priors and aggressively maintaining an open mind, reading a lot as a child, intentionally deferring the formation of concrete opinions about things until I was on my own and able to guide my own hand. This was necessary because I was raised by two major conservatives, in rural, conservative areas, surrounded by racists and sexists, my computer use and reading materials were surveilled and restricted, I was only allowed to listen to approved Christian music, I couldn't really even choose my own clothes, shoes or hairstyles. My belongings were regularly searched and my school administrators and teachers were always looped into the surveillance circle, alerting my grandparents and school administrators and punishing me if I so much as drew a stick figure holding nunchaku or dared journal about my experiences. There was a very aggressive and invasive attempt to brainwash me and the only thing I could think to do was wait until I was on my own, and learn everything from scratch. This began at 16, when I became homeless after refusing to enter Confirmation as a Catholic (I am atheist). My grandparents kicked me out and stole/broke most of my things. My mom was too busy doing drugs and not working to support me. I read a lot of philosophy and studied various topics. This has helped immensely with forming a foundation for my morality, sense of ethics and motivation. I still battle with a lot of internal demons stemming from my childhood and disorders including ADHD, and I can get extremely depressed, and I've burned out a couple times, but I just devote myself to my work and studies and get by. My brother, on the other hand, turned into a domestic abuser, which tracks considering his large role in the violence I experienced growing up. It's clear to me that intentionality was the defining factor in escaping most of the traumatic cycles present in my family tree, including drug addiction, violence and crime (as an example, my mom is currently in prison for abusing a mentally-handicapped quadriplegic) |
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| ▲ | yesfitz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've posted this thought a few times in different ways, but in my experience, community is found and then built. Regularly sharing space with others is the way to start finding community. I think your surveying is an example of that. The next step is when the interactions begin taking place outside of the regular time/place, as evidenced by your epilogue. What I haven't posted before is anything about how to successfully create those connections. Maybe we get lucky and someone will share our taste in music or movies or what have you, and the connection will be almost effortless. But to increase the rate of connection, I've found that learning to ask good questions is key. We can learn a lot from popular interviewers like Terry Gross, Johnny Carson, or James Lipton. But to provide some direct tips: Lead with open-ended questions (i.e. not "yes or no"). Ask follow-up questions. Share a little bit while asking questions (e.g. "I'm not really into X music, more Y. Where would I start if I wanted to listen to X?") Of course, sometimes friendships just aren't meant to be. It's tough, and can feel like a waste of time to have made the connection, but I've been surprised multiple times when a conversation that seemed like a slog of a one-off led to fruitful friendships later. |
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| ▲ | vel0city 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's one thing I've found about trying to meet new people. Try and find something they want to talk about, and the floodgates will often open. |
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| ▲ | blopker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| After my dad died from cancer in 2018, I saw first hand the resulting loneliness and the lack of resources available. Being an engineer, I figured I might as well try to solve it, at least for some people. In 2020, I started a non-profit for small support groups[0]. We're small, and I've been mostly funding it myself, but it's growing. The main issue is we don't have the resources to cover every topic, so it's not for everyone (yet). Happy to chat if you have feedback, email is in my profile. Everything we do is open source too[1]. [0]: https://www.totem.org/
[1]: https://github.com/totem-technologies/totem-server |
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| ▲ | srean 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Traumatic childhood almost always messes with how one attaches with people. A small exceptional fraction somehow manage to remain unaffected. When attachment styles get warped, behaviors that were a self protective behavior in childhood, become self-defeating behaviors in adult life. The person is quite oblivious to all this because those behaviors and fragile modes of attachment feel perfectly normal -- it is like growing up in a different g (acceleration due to gravity). It feels like - I am right, it's the others who are wrong, unfair, greedy, needy, flakey, stupid. For me this book [0] was very helpful for understanding what's going on in and around me [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888-attached |
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| ▲ | jasondigitized 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wondering if your results are skewed towards people who are outside and therefore have a higher probability of not being lonely by virtue of them being amongst people. |
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| ▲ | titanomachy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I like this poster thing. Anything that gives people a little connection to those around them. I sometimes sit on my front step and play guitar. 9/10 people ignore me but usually I'll have one or two nice conversations with a neighbor, and have made a couple friends this way. It helps that I live in a dense walkable place with lots of people who are similar to me. |
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| ▲ | vharuck 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've done sidewalk art with my kid. Between Spring and Fall last year, I'd make a new drawing every time it rained. Rarely was there a day without chalk on my sidewalk. I did it to play with my kid (and learn a little Japanese by writing the title in kanji), but another outcome was talking to neighbors. I keep to myself and have been told I'm difficult to approach, but people often come up and compliment the drawings. One lady said that, when walking with her granddaughter, she makes sure to see what's new on my sidewalk. It's been a very "low risk" way to put myself out there. I draw without anyone looking, and chatty people come to me while I'm in the yard. |
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| ▲ | iambateman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Thanks for sharing. Your website made me smile…it is a fun one for sure. |
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| ▲ | publicdebates an hour ago | parent [-] | | Thanks. I've been considering potentially starting a non-profit that accepts donations, to be able to afford to do this more often. |
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| ▲ | sebg 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Helping people like you are seems like an amazing start. Maybe try to get a pyramid structure going where you teach people to help other people and then they teach people and then it’s a movement? But at all times a low level of effort so there is no pressure other than just holding up a sign or a marker. I’ve found the hardest thing is breaking the ice and the sign / marker normalises a low stakes interaction where one participant can walk away at any time |
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| ▲ | publicdebates 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've thought a lot about this since you wrote it. I do wonder if this could become a pyramid activity. One problem is that it has to be people who are relatively comfortable talking to strangers, which by definition excludes the main people I'm trying to reach. That said, I wonder if there's a middle ground. Maybe people like myself, who feel unfulfilled, but don't have too much difficulty talking to strangers, could be the ones who hold the signs. And we could help those people get to the point we're at... it could work. | |
| ▲ | gulugawa 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think teaching people so that they can teach others is a necessity. I've fond that the most effective meetups are the ones where people have a shared sense of ownership, which includes being welcoming to people who are new. One board game group I am a part of ran for 2 years without an official host for this reason. |
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