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spiderfarmer 6 hours ago

The EU is moving towards 50% sustainable with lots of countries that at 60-75%, while the USA is at 25%.

Europe is also at least a decade ahead.

And since renewable + batteries is now cheaper than nuclear, we should spend our money and time wisely.

delta_p_delta_x 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> And since renewable + batteries is now cheaper than nuclear, we should spend our money and time wisely.

Eggs in one basket. Renewables are good, but it gets cloudy, it becomes night, it might not be windy. Nuclear will output power come rain or shine, and like I said, it's not like China isn't investing in advanced fission. They're throwing money at everything to see what sticks. They're working on SMRs, molten salt, thorium, and more.

hnmullany 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's two orders of magnitude difference between renewables and nuclear though. China commissioned about 3GW of nuclear and almost 300GW of solar last year.

energy123 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's words like "cloudy", and then there's proper simulation studies which demonstrate that these concerns are unfounded.

delta_p_delta_x 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Okay... and? I'm not saying 'let's only do nuclear, and not bother about wind/solar/tidal'. I'm saying there is plenty of money to go around, and it doesn't hurt to spend some of that to diversify our power generation and have some reliable, non-polluting, highly power-dense, high-tech base load (nuclear) that can be quickly throttled to meet demand, and is generally resistant to most environmental conditions.

The Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, French, British, and even Singaporean[1] (of all places, one might expect a tiny equatorial city-state to be the last place to think about nuclear, but it is all the same, because nuclear is ridiculously power-dense) governments seem to agree with me.

[1]: https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/articles/singapore-seriou...

raducu 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Eggs in one basket. Renewables are good, but it gets cloudy, night is a thing, it might not be windy

Also, we can't survive an asteroid crash/extinction event with solar.

Nuclear is transcedental. If we had practically unlimited fusion power, we could build underground, grow plants in aquaponics and aeroponics and ride it out in underground cities and farms.

soundwave106 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

One of the problems with nuclear is, um, it's ability to cause an "extinction event". Sort of.

In that:

* Nuclear power plant failures can be very, very nasty. As in, "producing uninhabitable land for eons" nasty. Yes, dam failures are spectacularly nasty, too (but don't create unlivable land as much). Yes, fossil fuel power plants also are quite bad in a "more silent way" via pollution (plus the occasional centuries-burning coal mine fires etc.). All power sources have problems. But this is a pretty big negative.

* What this means is that big centralized nuclear is also a big target for rogue actors... similar to dams, but not similar to more distributed energy sources like solar or wind. Blowing up a single solar farm or windmill doesn't have a huge impact, relatively speaking, compared to blowing up a nuclear plant. Nuclear plants thus have to spend extra expense protecting themselves against this sort of thing. (And, in the United States at least, classify much of the process of doing so.)

* Nuclear power plants can also be used to produce nuclear weapons. Now this is where the really fun politics begins. Many countries would be really unhappy if their adversary countries start making nuclear weapons from their nuclear power plants. A lot of military stuff has been spent over the last decades trying to prevent such.

This last point is where China's solar panel play actually makes more sense compared to nuclear. Think of the politics involved if China builds a big nuclear point in (insert adversary of some other country here). Could be very, very tricky in many cases. Whereas, there is very little if any politics involved with shipping a solar panel somewhere.

The distributed, small scale nature of solar panels also means that customers in countries with poor centralized power grids (common in developing countries) are able to use them to bypass the current system. This happened previously in many of these countries with mobile phones, where customers were able to bypass poor centralized phone networks. In this aspect, I think the "decentralized" aspect is far more important than the "renewable" aspect... but still.

(There are positives to nuclear, of course; I'm mainly countering the "transcendental" word here. All power sources have plusses and minuses.)

(Note: I have heard of work on smaller scale nuclear systems, but I am not certain if even a small nuclear power device completely resolves political or security concerns.)

lostlogin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Also, we can't survive an asteroid crash/extinction event with solar.

Maybe tell the Chinese they have it wrong and are risking extinction.

pfdietz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> unlimited fusion power

This is pie-in-the-sky, by-and-by fantasy. Fusion's sole accomplishment is likely to be making fission look cheap in comparison.

Just because something became a science fiction trope doesn't mean it's actually going to be a part of the future.

lolc 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Fusion will be its own extinction event as things go. At our development level, if we develop fusion, we'll have to live underground after boiling the oceans to generate crypto tokens and undress videos.

The asteroid is just science unlikely fiction.

stuaxo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Eggs in one basket. Renewables are good, but it gets cloudy, it becomes night, it might not be windy.

That's two baskets right there.

jacquesm 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it becomes night, it might not be windy.

That's where long distance interconnects come into play.

matthewdgreen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nuclear isn't getting built at any significant scale in the US after Vogtle. We might get a couple of plants opened up (like 3MI) but large scale new buildouts aren't happening until SMRs are available at scale. Anything else is an Internet fantasy.

tzs 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Renewables are good, but it gets cloudy, it becomes night, it might not be windy

...which is why China has 40 000 km of UHV transmission lines forming a vast network to move the energy from where it is abundant to where it is needed. They have 8 new UHV projects that started in 2024 or 2025 that will add another 10 000 km.

api 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If they're cheaper than nuclear, why is the AI crowd looking to nuclear for data centers?

I can think of two possible reasons: (1) it's America, and it's very hard to build anything, and nuclear is smaller and fits on site, and (2) we have an administration openly hostile to solar and wind energy for political "vibes" reasons.

Vibes are dumb. I think looking back this is going to be seen as an age of people deciding based more on vibes, which ultimately comes down to tribal dog whistles, than reason.

pfdietz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

See if they've actually committed money in a serious way, not in a "if you can actually achieve this absurdly low price point we'll buy it" way.

ceejayoz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> If they're cheaper than nuclear, why is the AI crowd looking to nuclear for data centers?

They're looking for credulous investors in the nuclear startups they founded?