Solar panels etc. will last decades and can and will be recycled afterwards. Further, most materials needed for renewable energy infrastructure (iron, lithium) are highly abundant on earth. Most of the suppliers work to use cheaper (=more abundant) materials in their products, replacing lithium with sodium in batteries and silver with copper in solar panels. Wind turbine blades are produced now using re-solvable resins.

Only there is no forever when you're talking about a finite resource, like fossil fuels.

But it creates enough cash to redirect all ire away to weakly lobbying industries, like aggrarian-sector or other weakly lobbied sectors like nuclear.

Yep. It's not just oil rigs in the desert. Chevron in Ecuador destroyed the Amazonian rainforest. Oil pipelines and open pit mines destroying Canadian primordial forests. Probably tons of untold stories.

Similar to the idea that electric cars are net worse for the environment because some of the materials used to make them. Worse than 20 years of burning gasoline in an ICE car? It's so ridiculous.

It’s so interesting seeing some of the comments about this. The sentence I wrote after that blames war and global devastation on fossil fuels. I was expecting to get flak for being too harsh to fossil fuels but somehow it swung the other direction. Which, as someone who shouts at the radio when the greenwashing oil ads play on NPR, is heartening.

especially when the most important total cost of ownership over life is considered

I vividly recall an episode of Dallas where Bobby was rationalizing to his brother JR about investing in renewables.

For a brief window of time our consensus for decarbonization extended all the way to (the most) popular media.

The US has done well historically, roughly on par with China on per capita renewable rollout, slightly ahead of China between 2019-2023 but probably falling behind now.

China being so big and populous makes it hard to make simple comparisons.

edit: looked it up, US is still ahead of China as of 2024:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/renewable-electricity-per...

Bear in mind that pre 2000 is likely hydro, in the early years of solar and wind that confused matters if lumped in together but I think it's now obvious when the new tech kicks in.

These are new electric power plants. The US is still ramping up oil and gas production, and is now producing more than ever before. No signs of transitioning away from fossil fuels for transport, industry, export.

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/fossil-fuels/chart-the-...

Seeing fewer rooftop solar installations when I visit my home state (Texas) than I see in the one I live in (Bavaria) is a trip. Yes, I know that electricity is far cheaper there than here, but as much electricity as air conditioning eats, and as big as those roofs are (panels are cheap; it's the system that's expensive), it should balance out.

Anecdotally, a ton of solar has gone up in the last four years here in Germany, both rooftop and, increasingly, in what were likely canola fields for biodiesel along highways - at first driven by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the need to reduce natural gas consumption, but now by how absolutely cheap those panels are. Too bad they're not being made here...

My favorite installation so far: a large field in SW Germany, with the panels high enough for cattle to wander and grass to grow under them. The cattle were almost all under those panels, munching away - it was a hot day.

My 65yo parents installed Solar panels on the roof of their house in a Tier 2 city in the poor parts of India. So did pretty much most of their neighbours.

So i would have to disagree. We are significantly far ahead from the initial “idea”.

Sorry to disagree, but we are not just closer, we’ve been there for a while.

You can go out and buy solar panels to cover your roof for a few thousand dollars/pounds/euros. You could definitely not do that in 1999.

Barely any closer? I can see it on every fourth roof in western Slovak village.

China did most of its rising on fossil fuels. I think they are fairly pragmatic as to what to use.

> my worry is can renewables be quickly brought online to power industry / power hungry Data Centers etc at a reasonable cost

I mean, clearly the answer is yes. The problem is political, not economic.

Everyone's rising on renewables. Renewable energy is just a victim of a heavily polarizing political atmosphere.

The US does not have Venezuela.

Canada fucking hates the US right now and are actively in discussions to deepen their relationship with China, and cut back on their relationship with the US.

I don't blame them.

Alaska

"It has Texas, Canada and Venezuela", eh.. excuse me?

The mountaintop panels add shade to those regions and actually reverse desertification, increases water retention and create useful agricultural land.