| ▲ | nicbou 8 hours ago |
| I write documentation for a living. Although my output is writing, my job is observing, listening and understanding. I can only write well because I have an intimate understanding of my readers' problems, anxieties and confusion. This decides what I write about, and how to write about it. This sort of curation can only come from a thinking, feeling human being. I revise my local public transit guide every time I experience a foreign public transit system. I improve my writing by walking in my readers' shoes and experiencing their confusion. Empathy is the engine that powers my work. Most of my information is carefully collected from a network of people I have a good relationship with, and from a large and trusting audience. It took me years to build the infrastructure to surface useful information. AI can only report what someone was bothered to write down, but I actually go out in the real world and ask questions. I have built tools to collect people's experience at the immigration office. I have had many conversations with lawyers and other experts. I have interviewed hundreds of my readers. I have put a lot of information on the internet for the first time. AI writing is only as good as the data it feeds on. I hunt for my own data. People who think that AI can do this and the other things have an almost insulting understanding of the jobs they are trying to replace. |
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| ▲ | Nextgrid 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The problem is that so many things have been monopolized or oligopolized by equally-mediocre actors so that quality ultimately no longer matters because it's not like people have any options. You mention you've done work for public transit - well, if public transit documentation suddenly starts being terrible, will it lead to an immediate, noticeable drop in revenue? Doubt it. Firing the technical writer however has an immediate and quantifiable effect on the budget. Apply the same for software (have you seen how bad tech is lately?) or basically any kind of vertical with a nontrivial barrier to entry where someone can't just say "this sucks and I'm gonna build a better one in a weekend". |
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| ▲ | nicbou 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You are right. We are seeing a transition from the user as a customer to the user as a resource. It's almost like a cartel of shitty treatment. I don't work for the public transit company; I introduce immigrants to Berlin's public transit. To answer to the broader question, good documentation is one of the many little things that affect how you feel about a company. The BVG clearly cares about that, because their marketing department is famously competent. Good documentation also means that fewer people will queue at their service centre and waste an employee's time. Documentation is the cheaper form of customer service. Besides, how people feels about the public transit company does matter, because their funding is partly a political question. No one will come to defend a much-hated, customer-hostile service. | | |
| ▲ | theptip 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Counterpoint - I think it’s going to become much easier for hobbyists and motivated small companies to make bigger projects. I expect to see more OSS, more competition, and eventually better quality-per-price (probably even better absolute quality at the “$0 / sell your data” tier). Sure, the megacorps may start rotting from the inside out, but we already see a retrenchment to smaller private communities, and if more of the benefits of the big platforms trickle down, why wouldn’t that continue? Nicbou, do you see AI as increasing your personal output? If it lets enthusiastic individuals get more leverage on good causes then I still have hope. | | |
| ▲ | samiv 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | When it became cheaper to publish text did the quality go up? When it became cheaper to make games did the quality go up? When it became cheaper to mass produce X (sneakers, tshirts, anything really) did the quality go up? It's a world that is made of an abundance of trash. The volume of low quality production saturates the market and drowns out whatever high quality things still remain. In such a world you're just better of reallocating your resources from the production quality towards the the shouting match of marketing and try to win by finding ways to be more visible than the others. (SEO hacking etc shenanigans) When you drive down the cost of doing something to zero you you also effectively destroy the economy based around that thing. Like online print, basically nobody can make a living with focusing on publishing news or articles but alternative revenue streams (ads) are needed. Same for games too. | | |
| ▲ | Terretta 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree with you, however: One of the qualia of a product is cost. Another is contemporaneity. If we put these together, we see a wide array of products which, rather than just being trash, hit a sweet spot for "up-to-date yet didn't break the wallet" and you end up with https://shein.com/ These are not thought of as the same people that subscribe to the Buy It For Life subreddit, but some may use Shein for a club shirt and BIFL for an espresso machine. They make a choice. Maybe Fashion was the original SEO hack. Whoever came up with the phrase "gone out of style" wrought much of this. | |
| ▲ | fainpul 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > When it became cheaper to … did the quality go up? No, but the availability (more people can afford it) and diversity (different needs are met) increased. I would say that's a positive. Some of the expensive "legacy" things still exist and people pay for it (e.g. newspapers / professional journalism). Of course low quality stuff increased by a lot and you're right, that leads to problems. | | |
| ▲ | samiv 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well yeah more people can afford shitty things that end up in the landfill two weeks later. To me this is the essence of "consumerism". Rather than think in terms of making things cheaper for people to afford we should think how to produce wealthier people who could afford better than the cheapest of cheapest crap. | | |
| ▲ | helloaltalt 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | But in the context of softwares, the landfill argument doesn't fit exactly well (well, sure someone can argue that storage on say, github might take more drives but the scale would be very cheaper than say landfill filled with physical things as well > Rather than think in terms of making things cheaper for people to afford we should think how to produce wealthier people who could afford better than the cheapest of cheapest crap. This problem actually runs deep and is systemic. I am genuinely not sure how one can do it when the basis of wealth derives from what exactly? The growth of stock markets which people call bubbles or the US debt crisis which is fueling up in recent years to basically fuel the consumerism spree itself. I am not sure. If you were to make people wealthy, they might still buy cheapest of cheapest crap just at a 10x more magnitude in many cases (or atleast that's what I observed US to do with how many people buy and sell usually very simple saas tools at times) | | |
| ▲ | samiv 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Re software and landfill.. true to some extent but there are still ramifications as you pointed out electricity demand and hardware infrastructure to support it. Also in the 80's when the computer games market crashed they literally dumped games cartridges in a hole in the desert! Maybe my opinion is just biased and I'm in the comfortable position to pass judgment but I'd like to believe that more people would be more ethical and conscious about their materialistic needs if things had more value and were better quality and instead of focusing on the "price" as the primary value proposition people were actually able to afford to buy other than the cheapest of things. Wouldn't the economy also be in much better shape if more people could buy things such as handmade shoes or suits? | | |
| ▲ | helloaltalt 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Re software and landfill.. true to some extent but there are still ramifications as you pointed out electricity demand and hardware infrastructure to support it. Also in the 80's when the computer games market crashed they literally dumped games cartridges in a hole in the desert! I hear ya but I wonder how that reflects on Open source software which was the GP request created by LLM let's say. Yes I know it can have bugs but its free of cost and you can own it and modify it with source code availability and run it on your own hardware There really isn't much of a difference in terms of hardware/electricity just because of these Open source projects But probably some for LLM's so its a little tricky but I feel like open source projects/ running far with ideas gets incentivized Atleast I feel like its one of the more acceptable uses of LLM in so far. Its better because you are open sourcing it for others to run. If someone doesn't want to use it, that's their freedom but you built it for yourself or running with an idea which couldn't have existed if you didn't know the details on implementations or would have taken months or years for 0 gains when now you can do it in less time It significantly improves to see which ideas would be beneficial or not and I feel like if AI is so worrying then if an idea is good and it can be tested, it can always be rewritten or documented heavily by a human. In fact there are even job posts about slop janitor on linkedin lol > Wouldn't the economy also be in much better shape if more people could buy things such as handmade shoes or suits? Yes but also its far from happening and would require a real shake up in all things and its just a dream right now. i agree with ya but its not gonna happen or not something one can change, trust me I tried. This requires system wide change that one person is very unlikely to bring but I wish you best in your endeavour But what I can do on a more individualistic freedom level is create open source projects via LLM's if there is a concept I don't know of and then open sourcing it for the general public and if even one to two people find it useful, its all good and I am always experimenting. |
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| ▲ | Telemakhos 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When it became cheaper to publish text, for example with the invention of the printing press, the quality of what the average person had in his possession went up: you went from very few having hand-copied texts to Erasmus describing himself running into some border guard reading one of his books (in Latin). The absolute quality of texts published might have decreased a bit, but the quality per capita of what individuals owned went up. When it became cheaper to mass produce sneakers, tshirts, and anything, the quality of the individual product probably did go down, but more people around the world were able to afford the product, which raised the standard of living for people in the aggregate. Now, if these products were absolute trash, life wouldn't make much sense, but there's a friction point in there between high quality and trash, where things are acceptable and affordable to the many. Making things cheaper isn't a net negative for human progress: hitting that friction point of acceptable affordability helps spread progress more democratically and raise the standard of living. The question at hand is whether AI can more affordably produce acceptable technical writing, or if it's trash. My own experiences with AI make me think that it won't produce acceptable results, because you never know when AI is lying: catching those errors requires someone who might as well just write the documentation. But, if it could produce truthful technical writing affordably, that would not be a bad thing for humanity. | |
| ▲ | dpoloncsak 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >When it became cheaper to x did the quality go up?
...yes? It introduces a lower barrier to entry, so more low-quality things are also created, but it also increases the quality of the higher-tier as well. It's important to note that in FOSS, we (Or atleast...I) don't generally care who wrote the code, as long as it compiles and isn't malicious. This overlays with the original discussion...If I was paying you to read your posts, I expect them to be hand-written. If I'm paying for software, it better not be AI Slop. If you're offering me something for free, I'm not really in a position to complain about the quality. It's undeniable that, especially in software, cheaper costs and a lower barrier to get started will bring more great FOSS software. This is like one of the pillars of FOSS, right? That's how we got LetsEncrypt, OpenDNS, etc. It will also 100% bring more slop. Both can be true at the same time. | | |
| ▲ | samiv 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd say that those high quality things that still exist do so despite of the higher volume of junk and they mostly exist because of other reasons/unique circumstances. (Individual pride, craftsmanship, people doing things as a hobby/without financial constraints etc) In a landscape where the market is mostly filled with junk by spending anything on "quality" any commercial product is essentially losing money. | | |
| ▲ | dpoloncsak 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >people doing things as a hobby/without financial constraints Isn't this the exact point I was making...? I get you're arguing it's only a single factor, but I feel like the point still stands. More hobbyists, less financial constraints |
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| ▲ | Draiken 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > but it also increases the quality of the higher-tier I truly don't see this happening anymore. Maybe it did before? If there's real competition, maybe this does happen. We don't have it and it'll never last in capitalism since one or a few companies will always win at some point. If you're a higher tier X, cheaper processes means you'll just enjoy bigger profit margins and eventually decide to start the enshittification phase since you're a monopoly/oligopoly, so why not? As for FOSS, well, we'll have more crappy AI generated apps that are full of vulnerabilities and will become unmaintainable. We already have hordes of garbage "contributions" to FOSS generated by these AI systems worsening the lives of maintainers. Is that really higher quality? I reckon it's only higher quantity with more potential to lower quality of even higher-tier software. |
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| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think for 'technical' writing, there is going to be some end-state crash. What happens when all the engineers left can't figure out something, and they start opening up manuals, and they are also all wrong and trash. And the whole world grinds to a halt because nobody knows anything. |
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| ▲ | Nextgrid 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When was the last time that speed of development was the limiting factor? 15-20 years ago? Nowadays the problem is that both technical and legal means are used to prevent adversarial interoperability. It doesn't matter if you (or AI) can write software faster if said software is unable to interface with the thing everyone else uses. | |
| ▲ | nicbou 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I suggest that you read my comment again. It will answer your question. |
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| ▲ | tempodox 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Documentation is the cheaper form of customer service. Thank you so much for saying this. Trying to convince anyone of the importance of documentation feels like an uphill battle. Glad to see that I'm not completely crazy. | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > We are seeing a transition from the user as a customer to the user as a resource. I'd argue that this started 30 years ago when automated phone trees started replacing the first line of workers and making users figure out how to navigate where they needed to in order to get the service they needed. I can't remember if chat bots or "knowledge bases" came first, but that was the next step in the "figure it out yourself" attitude corporations adopted (under the guise of empowering users to "self help"). Then we started letting corporations use the "we're just too big to actually have humans deal with things" excuse (eg online moderation, or paid services with basically no support). And all these companies look at each other to see who can lower the bar next and jump on the bandwagon. It's one of my "favorite" rants, I guess. The way I see this next era going is that it's basically going to become exclusively the users' responsibility to figure out how to talk to the bots to solve any issue they have. | |
| ▲ | apercu 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | “It's almost like a cartel of shitty treatment.” Thank you. I love it when someone poetically captures a feeling I’ve been having so succinctly. | | |
| ▲ | randmeerkat 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Thank you. I love it when someone poetically captures a feeling I’ve been having so succinctly. It’s almost like they’re a professional writer… | | | |
| ▲ | bell-cot 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Enshittificartelization? | |
| ▲ | alameenpd 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s almost like they are a professional writer | | |
| ▲ | publicdebates 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Word for word, 53 minutes later? Why? I have exactly 1 guess but am waiting to say it. | | |
| ▲ | fainpul 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | His other comment in this thread is also a clone of someone else's comment. | | |
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| ▲ | apercu 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thanks for reinforcing the point. Repetition is always the clearest form of insight. |
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| ▲ | jacobr1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Also consider that while the OP looks like a skilled, experienced individual, all too often the documentation is being written by someone with that context, but rather someone unskilled, and with read empathy. Quality is quite often very poor, to the point where as shitty as genai can be, it is still an improvement. Bad UX and writing outnumbers the good. The successes of big companies and the most well known government services are the exception. | |
| ▲ | FeteCommuniste 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > You mention you've done work for public transit - well, if public transit documentation suddenly starts being terrible, will it lead to an immediate, noticeable drop in revenue? Doubt it. Firing the technical writer however has an immediate and quantifiable effect on the budget. Exactly. If the AI-made documentation is only 50% of the quality but can be produced for 10% of the price, well, we all know what the "smart" business move is. | | |
| ▲ | marcosdumay 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If the AI-made documentation is only 50% of the quality AI-made documentation has 0% of the quality. As the OP pointed, AI can only document things that somebody already wrote down. That's no documentation at all. | | |
| ▲ | Calazon 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Most documentation is documenting things that somebody already wrote down in a different form. The quality of AI-made documentation may be poor, but calling it 0% is just silly. | |
| ▲ | casey2 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'd take AI generated slop reviewed by the person who created the system over tech writer babble any day of the week. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was reading about some interesting but flawed system only to discover later that they were talking about MY OWN SOFTWARE!? (only half-joking here) |
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| ▲ | jerf 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "well, if public transit documentation suddenly starts being terrible, will it lead to an immediate, noticeable drop in revenue? Doubt it." First, I understand what you're saying and generally agree with it, in the sense that that is how the organization will "experience" it. However, the answer to "will it lead to a noticeable drop in revenue" is actually yes. The problem is that it won't lead to a traceable drop in revenue. You may see the numbers go down. But the numbers don't come with labels why. You may go out and ask users why they are using your service less, but people are generally very terrible at explaining why they do anything, and few of them will be able to tell you "your documentation is just terrible and everything confuses me". They'll tell you a variety of cognitively available stories, like the place is dirty or crowded or loud or the vending machines are always broken, but they're terrible at identifying the real root causes. This sort of thing is why not only is everything enshittifying, but even as the entire world enshittifies, everybody's metrics are going up up up. It takes leadership willing to go against the numbers a bit to say, yes, we will be better off in the long term if we provide quality documentation, yes, we will be better off in the long term if we use screws that don't rust after six months, yes, we will be better off in the long term if we don't take the cheapest bidder every single time for every single thing in our product but put a bit of extra money in the right place. Otherwise you just get enshittification-by-numbers until you eventually go under and get outcompeted and can't figure out why because all your numbers just kept going up. | |
| ▲ | psychoslave 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >it's not like people have any options. That’s one way to frame it. An other one is, sometime people are stuck in a situation where all options that come to their mind have repulsive consequences. As always some consequences are deemed more immediate, and other will seem remoter. And often the incentives can be quite at odd between expectations in the short/long terms. >this sucks and I'm gonna build a better one in a weekend Hey, this is me looking at the world this morning. Bear with me, the bright new harmonious world should be there on Monday. ;) |
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| ▲ | GuB-42 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And that's exactly the same for coding! Coding is like writing documentation for the computer to read. It is common to say that you should write documentation any idiot can understand, and compared to people, computers really are idiots that do exactly as you say with a complete lack of common sense. Computers understand nothing, so all the understanding has to come from the programmer, which is his actual job. Just because LLMs can produce grammatically correct sentences doesn't mean they can write proper documentation. In the same way, just because they are able to produce code that compiles doesn't mean they can write the program the user needs. |
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| ▲ | mixedbit 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I like to think of coding as gathering knowledge about some problem domain. All that a team learns about the problem becomes encoded in the changes to the program source. Program is only manifestation of the humans minds. Now, if programmers are largely replaced with LLMs, the team is no longer gathering the knowledge, there is no intelligent entity whose understanding of the problem increases with time, who can help drive future changes, make good business decisions. |
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| ▲ | boilerupnc 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well said. I try to capture and express this same sentiment to others through the following expression: “Technology needs soul” I suppose this can be generalized to “__ needs soul”. Eg. Technical writing needs soul, User interfaces need soul, etc. We are seriously discounting the value we receive from embedding a level of humanity into the things we choose (or are forced) to experience. |
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| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Thanks so much for this! Nicely written (which, I guess, is sort of the point). |
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| ▲ | order-matters 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| your ability to articulate yourself cleanly comes across in this post in a way that I feel AI is trying to be and never quite reaches as well. I completely agree that the ambitions of AI proponents to replace workers is insulting. You hit the nail on the head with pointing out that we simply dont write everything down. And the more common sense / well known something is the less likely it is to be written down, yet the more likely it might be needed by an AI to align itself properly. |
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| ▲ | TimByte 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The hard part is the slow, human work of noticing confusion, earning trust, asking the right follow-up questions, and realizing that what users say they need and what they actually struggle with are often different things |
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| ▲ | gausswho 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I like the cut o' your jib. The local public transit guide you write, is that for work or for your own knowledge base? I'm curious how you're organizing this while keeping the human touch. I'm exploring ways to organize my Obsidian vault such that it can be shared with friends, but not the whole Internet (and its bots). I'm extracting value out the curation I've done, but I'd like to share with others. |
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| ▲ | sevensor 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| See also: librarians, archivists, historians, film critics, doctors, lawyers, docents. The déformation professionnelle of our industry is to see the world in terms of information storage, processing, and retrieval. For these fields and many others, this is like confusing a nailgun for a roofer. It misses the essence of the work. |
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| ▲ | DeepSeaTortoise 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why shouldn't AI be able to sufficiently model all of this in the not far future? Why shouldn't have it have sufficient access to new data and sensors to be able to collect information on its own, or at least the system that feeds it? Not from a moral perspective of course, but the technical possibility. And the overton window has shifted already so far, the moral aspect might align soon, too. IMO there is an entirely different problem, that's not going to go away just about ever, but could be solved right now easily. And whatever AI company does so first instantly wipes out all competition: Accept full responsibility and liability for any damages caused by their model making wrong decisions and either not meeting a minimum quality standard or the agreed upon quality. You know, just like the human it'd replace. |
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| ▲ | rsynnott 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Accept full responsibility and liability for any damages caused by their model making wrong decisions and either not meeting a minimum quality standard or the agreed upon quality. That's not sufficient, at least from the likes of OpenAI, because, realistically, that's a liability that would go away in bankruptcy. Companies aren't going to want to depend on it. People _might_ take, say, _Microsoft_ up on that, but Microsoft wouldn't offer it. | |
| ▲ | nicbou 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Why shouldn't AI be able to sufficiently model all of this I call it the banana bread problem. To curate a list of the best cafés in your city, someone must eventually go out and try a few of them. A human being with taste honed by years of sensory experiences will have to order a coffee, sit down, appreciate the vibe, and taste the banana bread. At some point, you need someone to go out in the world and feel things. A machine that cannot feel will never be a good curator of human experiences. |
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| ▲ | ajuc 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Replacement will be 80% worse, that's fine. As long as it's 90% cheaper. See Duolingo :) |
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| ▲ | Stratoscope 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Your philosophy reminds me of my friend Caroline Rose. One of Caroline's claims to fame was writing the original Inside Macintosh. You may enjoy this story about her work: https://www.folklore.org/Inside_Macintosh.html As a counterpoint, the very worst "documentation" (scare quotes intended) I've ever seen was when I worked at IBM. We were all required to participate in a corporate training about IBM's Watson coding assistant. (We weren't allowed to use external AIs in our work.) As an exercise, one of my colleagues asked the coding assistant to write documentation for a Python source file I'd written for the QA team. This code implemented a concept of a "test suite", which was a CSV file listing a collection of "test sets". Each test set was a CSV file listing any number of individual tests. The code was straightforward, easy to read and well-commented. There was an outer loop to read each line of the test suite and get the filename of a test set, and an inner loop to read each line of the test set and run the test. The coding assistant hallucinated away the nested loop and just described the outer loop as going through a test suite and running each test. There were a number of small helper functions with docstrings and comments and type hints. (We type hinted everything and used mypy and other tools to enforce this.) The assistant wrote its own "documentation" for each of these functions in this form: "The 'foo' function takes a 'bar' parameter as input and returns a 'baz'" Dude, anyone reading the code could have told you that! All of this "documentation" was lumped together in a massive wall of text at the top of the source file. So: When you're reading the docs, you're not reading the code. When you're reading the code, you're not reading the docs. Even worse, whenever someone updates the actual code and its internal documentation, they are unlikely to update the generated "documentation". So it started out bad and would get worse over time. Note that this Python source file didn't implement an API where an external user might want a concise summary of each API function. It was an internal module where anyone working on it would go to the actual code to understand it. |
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| ▲ | nicbou 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The map is not the territory! Documentation is a helpful, curated simplification of the real thing. What to include and what to leave out depends on the audience. But if you treat "write documentation" as a box-ticking exercise, a line that needs to turn green on your compliance report, then it can just be whatever. |
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| ▲ | esafak 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Are you working in the legal field or is that separate? How big is your company? |
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| ▲ | rasmus-kirk 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Spot on! I think LLM's can help greatly in quickly putting that knowledge in writing, including using it to review written materials for hidden prerequisite assumptions that readers might not be aware of that. It can also help newer hires in how to write and more clearly. LLM's are clearly useful in increasing productivity, but management that think that they even close to ready to replace large sections of practically any workforce are delusional. |
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| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | chiefalchemist 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't write for a living, but I do consider communication / communicating a hobby of sorts. My observations - that perhaps you can confirm or refute - are: - Most people don't communicate as thoroughly and complete - written and verbal - as they think they do. Very often there is what I call "assumptive communication". That is, sender's ambiguity that's resolved by the receiver making assumptions about what was REALLY meant. Often, filling in the blanks is easy to do - as it's done all the time - but not always. The resolution doesn't change the fact there was ambiguity at the root. Next time you're communicating, listen carefully. Make note of how often the other person sends something that could be interpreted differently, how often you assume by using the default of "what they likely meant was..." - That said, AI might not replace people like you. Or me? But it's an improvement for the majority of people. AI isn't perfect, hardly. But most people don't have the skills a/o willingness to communicate at a level AI can simulate. Improved communication is not easy. People generally want ease and comfort. AI is their answer. They believe you are replaceable because it replaces them and they assume they're good communicators. Classic Dunning-Kruger. p.s. One of my fave comms' heuristics is from Frank Luntz*: "It's not what you say, it's what they hear." (<< edit was changing to "say" from "said".) One of the keys to improved comms is to embrace that clarify and completeness is the sole responsibility of the sender, not the receiver. Some people don't want to hear that, and be accountable, especially then assumption communication is a viable shortcut. * Note: I'm not a fan of his politics, and perhaps he's not The Source of this heuristic, but read it first in his "Words That Work". The first chapter of "WTW" is evergreen comms gold. |
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| ▲ | LtWorf 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | LLMs are good at writing long pages of meaningless words. If you have a number of pages to turn in with your writing assignment and you've only written 3 sentences they will help you produce a low quality result that will pass the requirements. | | |
| ▲ | chiefalchemist 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Low-quality is relative. LLMs' low-quality is most people's above-average. The fact the copy - either way - is likely to go through some sort of copy-by-committee process makes the case for LLMs even stronger (i.e., why waste your time). Not always, but quite often. | | |
| ▲ | LtWorf 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | No it's not. It's low quality because it's extremely verbose and that wastes time. |
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| ▲ | rtgfhyuj 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| sounds like a bunch of agents can do a good amount of this. A high horse isn’t necessary |
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| ▲ | nicbou 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I wonder how you have reached this conclusion without having the faintest idea of what I write about. Nonetheless, I live from that work. If you are correct, there's a fair bit of money on the table for you. | |
| ▲ | lillecarl 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A good amount != this. AI being able to do the easy parts of something doesn't replace the hard ones. |
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| ▲ | PlatoIsADisease 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >insulting As as writer, you know this makes it seem emotional rather than factual? Anyway, I agree with what you are saying. I run a scientific blog that gets 250k-1M users per year, and AI has been terrible for article writing. I use AI for ideas on brainstorming and ideas for titles(which ends up being inspiration rather than copypaste). |
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| ▲ | nicbou 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | My whole comment was about the need for a thinking, feeling human being. Is it surprising that I am emotional about it? | | |
| ▲ | PlatoIsADisease 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Emotion takes away from the idea. Instead of thinking: "Oh this is a great point. There is immense economic value here." It becomes: This person is fearful of their job and used feeling to justify their belief. | | |
| ▲ | nicbou 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Writing about the importance of empathy in terms of economic value would probably take away a lot more from the idea. |
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| ▲ | speed_spread 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Funnily, of all your comment, the only word I objected to was the one right before "insulting": "almost". Thinking that LLM can replace humans outright expresses hubris and disdain in a way that I find particularly aggravating. |
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| ▲ | block_dagger 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| …says every charlatan who wanted to keep their position. I’m not saying you’re a charlatan but you are likely overestimating your own contributions at work. Your comment about feeding on data - AI can read faster than you can by orders of magnitude. You cannot compete. |
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| ▲ | pachorizons 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | "you are likely overestimating your own contributions at work" Based on what? Your own zero-evidence speculation? How is this anything other than arrogant punting? For sure we know that the point was something other than how fast the author reads compared to an AI, so what are we left with here? | |
| ▲ | psychoslave 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >you are likely overestimating your own contributions at work That’s the logical fallacy anyone is going to be pushed to as soon as judging their individual worth in an intrinsically collective endeavor will happen. People in lowest incomes which would not be able to integrate in society without direct social funds will be seen as parasites by some which are wealthier, just like ultra rich will be considered parasites by less wealthy people. | | |
| ▲ | brycewray 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > People in lowest incomes which would not be able to integrate in society without direct social funds will be seen as parasites by some which are wealthier, just like ultra rich will be considered parasites by less wealthy people. Your use of the word parasite, especially in the context of TFA, reminds me of the article James Michener wrote for Reader’s Digest in 1972 recounting President Nixon’s trip to China that year. In an anecdote from the end of the trip, Michener explained that Chinese officials gave parting gifts to the American journalists and their coordinating staffs covering the presidential trip. In the case of the radio/TV journalists, those staffs included various audio and video technicians. As Michener told it, the officials’ gifts to the technicians were unexpectedly valuable and carefully chosen; but, when the newspaper and magazine writers in the group got their official gifts, they turned out to be relatively cheap trinkets. When one writer was bold enough to complain about this apparent disparity, a translator replied that the Chinese highly valued those who held technical skills (especially in view of the radical changes then going on in China’s attempt to rebuild itself). “So what do you think about writers?” the complainer responded. To that, the translator said darkly, “We consider writers to be parasites.” |
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| ▲ | Larrikin 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This kind of low effort little thinking comment is what AI is competing with at scale, not OP. | |
| ▲ | g947o 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think the article is clear enough in defeating every one of your argument. | |
| ▲ | Croak 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ai doesn't read it guesses. |
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