>So in this case the government is raiding the home of someone who did not commit any crime, in the hopes of getting at people who might have.

I looked at a lot of search warrant affidavits in a previous job and there's really nothing all that unusual about this aspect (doing it to a member of the press or doing it on a pretext are separate issues that I'm not commenting on). Police execute search warrants at other locations all the time because the relevant question is whether there is probable cause to believe that there is evidence of the commission of the crime they are investigating at that location, not whether the person who lives or works there is guilty of that particular crime. Given that fact, of course, it's all the more reason that judicial officers should subject search warrant affidavits to careful scrutiny because when they come to look through your stuff they will just turn your house or business upside down and they don't get paid to help you clean up afterwards.

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rkagerer 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

...they don't get paid to help you clean up afterwards.

Could you litigate to recover the costs and repair any damage done? Is there case law around what is a reasonable level of dishevelment?

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jandrese 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can file a civil suit against the police department, but results are far from certain. Unless it was a case of the cops raiding the wrong home entirely and you managed to make the news the success rate is not great.

	▲	pcaharrier 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		And even then . . . https://ij.org/if-you-break-it-you-buy-it-unless-youre-the-p...

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pcaharrier 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Let's call it "extremely difficult" - https://ij.org/if-you-break-it-you-buy-it-unless-youre-the-p...

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quickthrowman 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Unlikely. Similarly, if the fire department has to use an axe to chop your door open to respond to a fire call, it’s your responsibility to replace the door.

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dugidugout 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I appreciate the added nuance here and would like to hear your comments on the seperate issue of doing this to a member of the press, or better, the sepcific pretext presented by the reporting:

> The warrant, she said, was executed “at the home of a Washington Post journalist who was obtaining and reporting classified and illegally leaked information from a Pentagon contractor. The leaker is currently behind bars.”

> Bondi added: “The Trump administration will not tolerate illegal leaks of classified information that, when reported, pose a grave risk to our nation’s national security and the brave men and women who are serving our country.”

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pcaharrier 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As long as there's probable cause for some crime, the subjective motivations of the officer are almost never going to enter the legal analysis. Whren v. United States[1] was a case about a pretextual traffic stop, but the core reasoning (unanimously) was about what the Fourth Amendment requires/allow. For example, if police have a "hunch" you're selling drugs but not probable cause, they can just wait for you to run a stop sign or something and then pull you over and see if you left something in plain view, or if you act nervous, or try to get consent to search. At that point, the fact that the initial reason they started focusing on you was a mere hunch doesn't matter legally speaking. If this sounds like it can be used to make life hard for people that law enforcement doesn't like, you're not wrong. In my job we really didn't see how challenges to search warrants turned out, but as far as I'm aware the Supreme Court has never said "Whren only applies to traffic stops and not search warrant affidavits."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States

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dugidugout 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> For example, if police have a "hunch" you're selling drugs but not probable cause, they can just wait for you to ...

Whren doesn't seem to track in this case or am I missing something? In the example provided, the hunch directly ties the target to the crime ("drug selling"), which matches the stop's pretext. Natanson isn't accused of any crime, she's essentially writing about the "selling of drugs", not organizing or committing it.

Adjusting your example, if I'm simply friends (implying history of contact) with a known drug dealer, am I really at risk of my home being raided and communications seized solely because I might have evidence leading to their conviction?

Then extrapolating this to the implications on freedom of press... This doesn't sit well with me.

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t-3 an hour ago | parent [-]

> Adjusting your example, if I'm simply friends (implying history of contact) with a known drug dealer, am I really at risk of my home being raided and communications seized solely because I might have evidence leading to their conviction?

If the police can convince a judge to give them a warrant for it, sure, but if they were targeting you specifically they probably wouldn't bother with the indirect route of your drug-dealing friend and would just harass you for j walking and not using your blinkers properly until you raised your voice at a cop and charge you with assaulting an officer.

	▲	dugidugout 6 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I believe you have the hypothetical confused. > if they were targeting you specifically They are not targeting Natanson at all from what I can tell. They're targeting a source she's writing from (to what extent isn't clear to me). This is precisely why I'm positing Whren doesn't apply here. I get the idea of being 'papered' out of a system, but I'm trying to distinguish a pretext that can be justified (objective probable cause) from one that can't (abuse of process). My boss can easily provide reason relating me to fire me, however fantastic the reality, but those would be refused, for good reason, if they surfaced them through private channels outside the organization.

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tracker1 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You'd have to be able to read minds if you want to establish a pretext. There are perfectly valid reasons, such as evidence collection against the accused party, to perform the search/raid.

I do wish that the law provided for concepts of minimal damage and repair should there be actual damage (not just creating a mess) that doesn't result in evidence. ie: if you tear open drywall, there better be something behind drywall that was collected as evidence.

However, that's not the case, and even civilly it's hard to collect damages even when it's the "wrong house"... though thatt's one of the few exceptions I've seen... also, iirc, there's been some 4th amendment arguments to construe having to pay for use/damages, not sure where that has landed.

IANAL.