You missed the entire point of the strong static typing.

I don’t think I did. I am one of the very few people who have had paying jobs doing Scala, Haskell, and F#. I have also had paying jobs doing Clojure and Erlang: dynamic languages commonly used for distributed apps.

I like HM type systems a lot. I’ve given talks on type systems, I was working on trying to extend type systems to deal with these particular problems in grad school. This isn’t meant to a statements on types entirely. I am arguing that most systems don’t encode for a lot of uncertainty that you find when going over the network.

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the-grump 2 hours ago | parent [-]

With all due respect, you can use all of those languages and their type systems without recognizing their value.

For ensuring bits don't get lost, you use protocols like TCP. For ensuring they don't silently flip on you, you use ECC.

Complaining that static types don't guard you against lost packets and bit flips is missing the point.

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tombert an hour ago | parent [-]

With all due respect, you really do not understand these protocols if you think “just use TCP and ECC” addresses my complaints.

Again, it’s not that I have an issue with static types “not protecting you”, I am saying that you have to encode for this uncertainty regardless of the language you use. The way you typically encode for that uncertainty is to use an algebraic data type like Maybe or Optional. Checking against a Maybe for every field ends up being the same checks you would be doing with a dynamic language.

I don’t really feel the need to list out my full resume, but I do think it is very likely that I understand type systems better than you do.

	▲	folex 13 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> ends up being the same checks you would be doing with a dynamic language Sure thing. Unless dev forgets to do (some of) these checks, or some code downstream changes and upstream checks become gibberish or insufficient.
	▲	the-grump an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Fair enough, though I feel so entirely differently that your position baffles me. Gleam is still new to me, but my experience writing parsers in Haskell and handling error cases succinctly through functors was such a pleasant departure from my experiences in languages that lack typeclasses, higher-kinded types, and the abstractions they allow. The program flowed happily through my Eithers until it encountered an error, at which point that was raised with a nice summary. Part of that was GHC extensions though they could easily be translated into boilerplate, and that only had to be done once per class. Gleam will likely never live to that level of programmer joy; what excites me is that it’s trying to bring some of it to BEAM. It’s more than likely your knowledge of type systems far exceeds mine—I’m frankly not the theory type. My love for them comes from having written code both ways, in C, Python, Lisp, and Haskell. Haskell’s types were such a boon, and it’s not the HM inference at all.