| ▲ | teiferer 3 hours ago |
| "Why stop there" is often a reason why nothing gets done. Why do small if you can go big right away? Because going big right away is costly (in social cost, in convincing, in how much people need to change behavior, ...) and that prevents people from doing it in the first place because the threshold is high. Apathy is the result. Better to take a small step first, then get used to the measure / the cost, then have a next phase where you do more. Everybody makes fun of paper straws. Or they made fun of wind power when it was barely 0.1% of energy production. Why not immediately demand 20 years ago that all single use plastic is banned? Or that only wind and solar are allowed? Because the step is too big, it would not be accepted. You need to take one step at a time. That's even a viable strategy against procrastination. There is this big daunting task. So much to do! Oh my, better scroll a little tiktok first. No, just take a small first step of the task. Very small, no big commitment. Then maybe do some tiktok, but the little first step won't be too much. Result is, you have an immediate sense of accomplishment and actually made progress, maybe even stay hooked with more steps of the ultimately big task. |
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| ▲ | bigstrat2003 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Everybody makes fun of paper straws. Yeah, because they suck. Uh, pun not intended. Paper straws get somewhat soggy and feel bad in your mouth. They are inferior to the plastic straws they purport to replace, so people resist them as much as they can. If you want to actually make a difference with an environmental effort, you need to make something superior. Nobody makes fun of LED light bulbs because (up front cost aside) they are wildly superior to incandescent. People actually like having LED bulbs and seek them out. The same cannot be said, and likely never will be said, of paper straws. |
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| ▲ | repeekad an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Most paper straws use PFAS, meaning we’re actively composting PFAS in a fantasy effort to feel good about our waste without actually giving anything up https://fortune.com/well/2023/08/24/paper-straws-harmful-for... | |
| ▲ | piyushpr134 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | paper straws do not make any sense any way you look at it. Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? Moreover, paper straws are not even recyclable due to water content which makes them soggy. Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. | | |
| ▲ | teiferer 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Nope, that's a myth. Plastic is essentially unrecyclable. Some types of plastic can be made into "lower" quality types with lots of effort, but there is no circular reuse. The oil and plastic industries want to make you believe that this is all a solved problem, but it very much is not. In contrast, paper and wood products just rot away at the end of their life, and a new tree grows in their place. | |
| ▲ | minitech an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? It’s more okay to make things out of paper than plastic, yes. Plastic waste and microplastics are a huge problem. Trees are a renewable resource. > Moreover, paper straws are not even recyclable due to water content which makes them soggy. Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Plastic straws are almost never (literally never?) recycled. Paper straws are supposed to be fully biodegradable. > Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. But yes, this and the usability issue make the other points moot (n.b. leaching harmful chemicals is a concern that also applies to plastic straws and paper cups). The vast majority of existing straws should be replaced with no straw, and most beyond that with reusable straws. | |
| ▲ | injidup 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Soggy is not a problem.Recycling paper involves wetting it to loose the fibres and then reforming it. It's how paper is made. | | |
| ▲ | ulrikrasmussen 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But usually paper and cardboard that has been in contact with food is not recyclable because it contaminates the batch. That's why pizza boxes also cannot go into the cardboard/paper fraction. | | |
| ▲ | vanviegen an hour ago | parent [-] | | No, that's because pizza boxes are contaminated with fat. That messes up the paper recycling process. Water is fine. | | |
| ▲ | GCUMstlyHarmls an hour ago | parent [-] | | Man, if that's the problem then I can only assume any fast food box is not recyclable too? | | |
| ▲ | teiferer 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The point of paper fast food boxes is not to recycle them but to have no trash in the end as they just burn or rot, all in a sustainable way. In contrast to plastic. |
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| ▲ | bluescrn an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Soggy is not a problem. It is when you're trying to suck a thick milkshake through one, though... |
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| ▲ | vanviegen an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? Uhh.. yes? Trees can be grown, just like any agriculture product. > Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable In theory. However that rarely works out in practice, due to the complications of mixing various types of plastic in a single stream of garbage. > Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. The glue for paper straws will be a biodegradable water-based adhesive. It may be finished with natural wax. And that's it. I think you are intentionally spreading FUD saying glue and chemicals. That being said, I hate paper straws. I like bamboo straws though. |
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| ▲ | jquery 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm convinced paper straws are a psy-op by the plastics industry to make us hate environmentalists. |
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| ▲ | locknitpicker 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Why do small if you can go big right away? You're missing the fact that this sort of infrastructure requires a robust business case. That's why scale is critical. Recycling bottles and cans has a solid business case. Glass and aluminium are straight forward to recycle at an industrial scale, but would be pointless if they were kept at an artisanal scale. Any moralistic argument is pointless if you can't put together a coherent business plan. The people you need to work and the energy you need to spend to gather and process whatever you want to process needs to come from somewhere. How many vape pens do you need to recycle per month to support employing a single person? Guilt trips from random people online don't pay that person's rent, do they? > Everybody makes fun of paper straws. This is specious reasoning. The core issue are tradeoffs, and what you have to tolerate or abdicate. Paper straws are a red herring because the main criticism was that, at the start, they failed to work as straws. So you were left with an industrial demand to produce a product that failed to work and was still disposable. If you look at food packaging and containers, you are faced with more thought-provoking tradeoffs. Paper containers don't help preserve food as well as plastic ones. Packaging deteriorates if exposed to any form of moisture, and contaminates food so quickly tk the point you can taste cardboard if you leave them overnight. This leads to shorter shelf life and more food waste. Is food waste not an ecological problem? How do you manage those tradeoffs? |