The other replies to this show a form of argumentation that's always fascinated me.

You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are

    * "Y will still exist" 
    * "Y can still be encouraged separately"
    * "You should tell me the difference between X and Y"
    * "Hey, I found an X that sometimes acts vaguely similar to Y!"

None directly disagree with the original point, but they do imply fault in the original reasoning without providing any proof or requiring any effort.

The third one is a classic, the straw man. A concise implication of error in which a good-faith response would be long-winded and boring comparatively.

To what end?

What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of relative wholesomeness?

... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well... encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better? passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests it."?

▲ labcomputer 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It is disappointing that it is so easy to bamboozle HNers with a straw man argument.

The original poster was clearly not making an analogy between professional soccer and only fans creators.

To be explicit, the comparisons were:

Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators

Victoria’s Secret model -> only fans creator

Pro soccer -> esports

I fail to see how the culture of our country will be negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that specific comparison was never suggested, except by the “rebuttal”

▲

8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

▲

volkk 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't believe the rigidity of the comparisons matter within the broad context of my point. Regardless of whether OP didn't directly compare pro soccer to OF, the point is that allowing the degradation of expectations of Visas will only incentivize low effort crap. And yes, one can sit here and argue all day that OF fans, or TikTok creators are the same thing as Victorias secret models or Cinematic actors (and I would argue that's far from true) but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and general disregard of trying to better yourself because 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said TikTok creators

▲

wredcoll 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and general disregard of trying to better yourself because 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said TikTok creators

None of this is true, but boy, it sure does feel good to believe.

I wish you, and people in general, would be more willing to look for something like truth instead of whatever feels good at the moment.

	▲	volkk 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		pointless comment that doesn't say anything. but, i do wish i could live in the imaginary world you live in

▲

ryandrake 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think before we suggest whether policy is good or bad, we need to agree on the meaning of vague terms like "societal erosion." What about society is eroding? You mention IQ and literacy. What about tolerance, open-mindedness, compassion, equality, financial success... Some of these things are going up and some are going down. Are there other dimension to "societal erosion?"

	▲	volkk 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		i do think it's important to define what a healthy society looks like, but I'm going to guess everyone will have a very different answer. It's a topic that likely doesn't have any kind of straightforward response with unanimous agreement. I would argue that beyond basics like food, shelter and protection of human rights, we should strive for more noble pursuits as society. I'm not even religious whatsoever, but I think the proliferation of certain vices like sex/gambling/drugs is probably a net negative for society. They certainly have their roles in the long tail, but overall a society that is caught up in rampant dopamine chasing is a distracted, doomed society. We should always be yearning. We should be paving a road that is a better one for our future generations. Societal erosion is creating short term profit/happiness at the expense of long term thinking. America has become the king of this. You can see it everywhere, from the types of businesses people create (e.g pyramid schemes in the form of courses, or the shovel makers that create businesses to proliferate said pyramid schemes) to what is currently valued by the growing generation. I can keep going and going, but I'll leave it here. I hope I somewhat made my point. I'm sure many will disagree, and that is why this country is on its way downwards. The few smart will own and create a lot of value for themselves, we'll likely have a few trillionaires, and the majority will be bumbling idiots that can barely read. We're not there yet, but we're well on the way there

▲ volkk 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

it's low iq pedantry/contrarianism that pervades the tech industry that i refuse to engage with. it's exactly the same people that will bikeshed every feature into the abyss. i agree and appreciate your sentiment.