We got taught to be helpless by the industry, so they can help us out.

industry is pretty damn good at figuring out what customers actually want, instead of just what customer say they want and then don't actually buy.

cars are the way they are because that's what the overwhelming majority of car buyers actually want. The average driver doesn't want their car spitting out error codes, they want a check engine light to tell them to take it to a mechanic, and any information beyond that is confusing.

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alextingle 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you sure that's what customers want, or maybe it's what dealers want?

The check engine light tells you nothing. It tells your local mechanic nothing. Do you can't get the problem fixed easily or cheaply.

What it does, is force you to take the car to a dealer, who has the specialist, proprietary equipment needed to interpret the fault. And these gatekeepers will charge you a fat premium for that.

So no. I don't think this design choices are driven by a desire to serve the customer.

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notatoad 9 hours ago | parent [-]

the check engine light tells you there's an OBD code available to be read. you can buy a reader for $20 on amazon, or your local hardware store, or i've even seen them at gas stations. you don't need "specialist proprietary equipment" that "gatekeepers charge a fat premium" for. this isn't magic.

most people take it to a mechanic instead, because that's what they'd rather do.

	▲	MrGilbert 19 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Even if I get the DTC codes out of the OBD - and then? Without the manufacturers service manual, I'm lost at interpreting the codes. For older cars, these manuals are somehow "obtainable" through "sources", but do not expect the manufacturer to help you out if, in fact, you are interested in fixing your own car. So yes - it’s the industry that got us screwed.
	▲	Nextgrid 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Not entirely correct. OBD only mandates emissions information to be made available in a standardized way. There are plenty of proprietary codes that might set a malfunction light and not show up on an OBD reader, or not be interpreted by it. (there are tools that reverse-engineer the proprietary protocols that can show those codes, but they aren't $20 - more like $200 and up) I really don't see why you're defending hiding information. Even for someone who doesn't want to mess around and would just take it to a dealer, making the information available without the need for a code reader will not hurt in any way.

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esseph 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ah, there is a distinction between new car buyers, and used car buyers.

New car buyers are 10-15% of the annual car market (US).

The other 85-90% of people are stuck with whatever the other people bought.