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Open Chaos: A self-evolving open-source project(openchaos.dev)
368 points by stefanvdw1 17 hours ago | 76 comments
tedivm 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

When I used to play Screeps[1], a MMO strategy game where you programmed to control your units and buildings, a group of us setup a player that was managed in this exact way called Quorum[2].

If anyone wants to run their own project in this way I open sourced the code to do so under the GitConsensus[3] project. There's a Github App (which may not still work, but if there's interest I'll restart it) and a "run it yourself" python library and CLI you can run from Github Actions[4].

1. https://screeps.com/

2. https://github.com/ScreepsQuorum/screeps-quorum

3. https://www.gitconsensus.com/

4. https://pypi.org/project/gitconsensus/

lucb1e 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't get the title. Do I understand correctly this is basically "Twitch plays Github" without Twitch?

repeekad 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

GitHub plays GitHub?

mistrate 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yea

esquire_900 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cool social experiment. It's interesting how narrow the scope of all top voted PRs are: change this or that detail in the voting (daily, count down votes etc), or make it more efficient (rust).

I wonder if this has the potential to build a "community" that will take this into a completely different direction, or if it will neatly stay within the initial boundaries.

bji9jhff 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is it a kind of computer-assisted Nomic [0]?

0: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic

bshanks 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

See also PerlNomic: http://odbook.stanford.edu/static/filedocument/2009/11/15/Ch...

lexx 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nomic vibes indeed

Dinux 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd expect even more chaos, let an LLM build the features and people vote.

stavros 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Behold: https://theboard.stavros.io/

oniony 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I honestly thought that this is what it was initially.

deadbabe 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is most code not written by LLMs these days anyway?

Kinrany 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Most code by lines, perhaps, but not most code that works and is useful

genghisjahn 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Says who?

all2 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Says anyone who has tried to do anything requiring the smallest amount of computer science or computer engineering. These models are really great at boilerplate and simple web apps. As soon as you get beyond that, it gets hairy. For example, I have a clone of HN I've been working on that adds subscriptions and ad slot bidding. Just those two features required a lot of hand holding. Figma Design nailed the UX, but the actual guts/business logic I had to spend time on.

I expect that this will get easier as agentic flows get more mature, though.

Then the only place that novelty will occur is in the actual study of computer science. And even then, a well contexted agentic pipeline will speed even R&D development to a great degree.

One very bad thing about these things is the embedded dogma. With AI ruling the roost in terms of generation (basically an advanced and opinionated type-writer, lets be honest) breaking away from the standards in any field will become increasingly difficult. Just try and talk to any frontier model about physics that goes against what is currently accepted and they'll put up a lot of resistance.

K0balt 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’ve been pleasantly surprised how useful it is for writing low level stuff like peripheral drivers on imbedded platforms. It’s actually-simple- stuff, but exactingly technical and detail oriented. It’s interesting that it can work so well, then go wildly off the rails and be impossible to wrestle back on unless you go way back in the context or even start a completely new context and feed in only what is currently relevant (this has become my main strategy)

Still, it’s amazingly good at wrestling the harmony of a bunch of technical details and applying them to a tried and true design paradigm to create an API for new devices or to handle tricky timing, things like that. Until it isn’t and you have to abort the session and build a new one because it has worked itself into some kind of context corner where it obsesses about something that is just wrong or irrelevant.

Still, it’s a solid 2x on production, and my code is arguably more maintainable because I don’t get tempted to be clever or skip clarifying patterns.

There is a level of wholistic complexity that kills it though. The trick is dividing the structure and tasks into self contained components that contain any relevant state within their confines to the maximum practical extent, even if there is a lot of interdependent state going on inside. It’s sort a mod a meta-functional paradigm working with inherently state-centric modules.

lucb1e 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> a clone of HN I've been working on that adds subscriptions and ad slot bidding

Wut, what's the purpose of that? Is this just a toy learning project? Would it be to make money off of people who don't know that an ad-free version of HN exists at news.ycombinator.com? Will you try to sell it to Ycombinator?

bigstrat2003 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Says anyone with a modest level of skill at programming. It doesn't take a genius programmer to realize these things are terrible at writing code.

jaredhallen 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Not a developer by trade. But incidentally, today I took my first stab at "vibe coding". I wrote a little gui program to streamline a process that I've been doing for years. The code is an absolute wreck. But the program works and does what it's meant to do. I wouldn't ever expect anyone to maintain it, but for what it is, I can't complain. The alternative would have been for the tool to have not been written at all. The level of effort was so low that a) it passed the threshold of it being worth my time, and b) if it needs to be re-vibe-coded over again, then no worries.

jibal 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The name of the person who said it is on the left above the comment.

sighansen 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Really interesting. I wonder if something good will come out of it. It feels like twitch plays pomemon.

stavros 16 hours ago | parent [-]

If you want to see a speedrun, I made the same thing around a month ago:

https://theboard.stavros.io

strangescript 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is cool, but once a week seems a little slow

throawayonthe 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

there's a PR for that! :p

https://github.com/skridlevsky/openchaos/pull/51

Kinrany 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The frequency should be adjusted based on the number of participants

lucb1e 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Request merging the change you wish to see!

Kinrany 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It could merge any PR that reaches a set number of upvotes

Towaway69 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

is it forkable to have even more chaos?

anishgupta 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The website IS the repo. The repo IS the website. I wonder if we get something productive by end of 2026 from this repo. Who knows, maybe we solve AGI

Eldodi 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Would have been even more absurd if code AND PRs were all AI generated by different coding agents

appplication 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Nothing is stopping that from happening tbh

jibal 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not possible to generate anything productive this way.

lucb1e 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Wikipedia basically works this way. And instead of it being directly public, it goes through a voting process. One might argue it's actually much more curated than Wikipedia :P

jibal 4 hours ago | parent [-]

No, it doesn't work anything like this.

> One might argue it's actually much more curated than Wikipedia

Well duh. It's vastly more "curated" since Wikipedia isn't curated at all, almost anyone can change anything at any time but changes are supposed to reflect consensus (in theory, but there are numerous rogue agents who violate the rules) and it's a single instance with a linear set of changes that only occur once a week, whereas WP is a seething mass of constant change--but with a tight fitness function due to the (again theoretical) requirement that all changes must reflect reliable sources, not the whims of the editors--totally the opposite of OC. (There are additional policies and various governing groups but these make WP even less like OC). It's beyond absurd to liken OC to WP.

mappum 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Excited to see how this plays out, I made something similar a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9351286

drdeca 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Oh man, I was going to try and find that to link to it. I can’t believe it was 10 years ago… I really enjoyed following that for a while. Thanks for making it.

fourthark 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The end product is... just the website?

I feel like I'm missing something.

drdaeman 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s an absurdist art software project, devoid of any consistent intent or purpose beyond the operating principles.

Towaway69 11 hours ago | parent [-]

codified dadaismus

nish__ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just a website? Websites can do anything. It could evolve into a whole social network.

danr4 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It can evolve into anything based on community votes

patcon 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So it begins?

Once you have governance that people stick around for, you can decide to do anything

ivanjermakov 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not a product, it's a social experiment for programmers.

fullstackwife 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Should votes get invalidated after major change in the ongoing PR?

ewidar 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

Not sure you can "cancel" github reactions of other users

polyomino 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They should automate reading hacker news comments and generating PRs to address them

staticassertion 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Open a PR and suggest this.

jibal 3 hours ago | parent [-]

You can't just "suggest" something in a PR, you have to provide the change.

BinaryIgor 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are guardrails, CI/CD, to make code at least compile-able and require minimal quality standards also possible to change via PR or managed somewhere else? With this possibility, it might went into oblivion indeed!

6r17 15 hours ago | parent [-]

I mean.... it's the spirit of the project to eventually be able to reach to that state. I freaking love that project woaw hahaha

SubiculumCode 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Firefox warns of a security threat when I visit the site.

omoikane 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe Firefox is prescient, just waiting for someone to create a problematic pull request that does something untoward while simultaneously locking everyone else from submitting pull requests (and get a bunch of bots to upvote it in the last second before the merge window closes).

WithinReason 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Merging the security threat is yet to be voted on

alexpadula 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You know it’s kinda like a lottery the more I read it lol! If the repo got super popular and had lots of traffic say.

noncoml 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reading through the comments, it’s remarkable how many of us have had the same idea at some point

Beautifully executed

alexpadula 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sorry to be a party pooper I just don’t get the point.

izietto 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think there's a point. You can always submit a point, if it gets voted you will have your point

stingraycharles 10 hours ago | parent [-]

This is exactly the point.

Towaway69 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's a bit like bigtech but instead of product people voting on what gets merged, everyone gets a vote here.

fwipsy 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Twitch plays Github?

stingraycharles 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Am I the only one who's noticing that this "open chaos" project's most voted PRs are to add structure to the project (e.g., calculate +1/-1, etc.)?

I guess people just desire a certain amount of structure to their chaos :)

hmokiguess 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can’t have one without the other

aalimov_ 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

“Convenient chaos”

flyrain 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I guess this is one sign that coding is drifting to an art, given the LLM is invading.

oooyay 8 hours ago | parent [-]

A lot of engineering disciplines are a mixture of math, art, and science. Programming was no different, but I do think some people built up an identity that reinforced a difference that wasn't there to begin with.

electrodisk 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

confused, what is this and what’s going on exactly?

phreack 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://github.com/skridlevsky/openchaos?tab=readme-ov-file#...

Anyone makes a PR, there's a vote and highest voted one gets merged every week. It's marvelous.

meltyness 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Like reddit but nomic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic

jedberg 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Click through to the GitHub link at the bottom, which has the README. It explains everything.

kittikitti 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is a very interesting experiment where I hope the metamorphosis is more like a butterfly than Kafka.

Esophagus4 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, this could end up either turning into a Linux or like when Microsoft released Tay and Twitter users taught it to be a Nazi. Or anywhere in between, really.

jibal 10 hours ago | parent [-]

It really can't for numerous reasons, one of them being that PRs have to be fairly low effort, and this will be even more so if the popular "merge daily" PR is voted in. People talk about this "evolving", but it's nothing like biological evolution or genetic algorithms. It's just a linear sequence of small changes, and without either planning and central authority or some stable fitness function (the ecological environment in biological evolution) the changes are directionless.

fc417fc802 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> some stable fitness function

The participants could always vote to add a test harness and CI/CD to vet pull requests against.

jibal 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That has nothing to do with a stable fitness function ... an external set of factors that determine which changes allow offspring to survive. This thing doesn't have offspring (or always has exactly one offspring and then the parent dies) and it survives until the whole thing collapses.

And I think they already have what you describe or something like it ... PRs have to build and survive CI.

fc417fc802 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It should have been abundantly clear that wasn't the way the word "evolution" was being used here to being with. (Actually the comment you replied to used the word "metamorphosis" so what are you even going on about?)

Nonetheless, if you're going to quibble that it isn't ahckchtually evolution because it's missing a fitness function then I'm going to counter that you can form a loose analogy so long as you have some fitness apparatus that's conceptually and operationally separable from the implementation itself. I think some unit tests and a CI pipeline is sufficient.

libertyit 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Genius.