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sublinear a day ago

I agree only with the part about reconfiguring existing proofs. That's the value here. It is still likely very tedious to confirm what the LLMs say, but at least it's better than waiting for humans to do this half of the work.

For all topics that can be expressed with language, the value of LLMs is shuffling things around to tease out a different perspective from the humans reading the output. This is the only realistic way to understand AI enough to make it practical and see it gain traction.

As much as I respect Tao, I feel like his comments about AI usage can be misleading without carefully reading what he is saying in the linked posts.

roadside_picnic a day ago | parent | next [-]

> It is still likely very tedious to confirm what the LLMs say,

A large amount of Tao's work is around using AI to assist in creating Lean proofs.

I'm generally on the more skeptical side of things regarding LLMs and grand visions, but assisting in the creation of Lean proofs is a huge area of opportunity for LLMs and really could change mathematics in fundamental ways.

One naive belief many people have is that proofs should be "intelligible" but it's increasingly clear this is not the case. We have proofs that are gigabytes (I believe even terabytes in some cases) in size, but we know they are correct because they check in Lean.

This particular pattern of using state of the art work in two different areas (LLMs and theorem proving) absolutely has the potentially to fundamentally change how mathematics is done. There's a great picture on pp 381 of Type Theory and Formal Proof where you can easily see how LLMs can be placed in two of the most tricky parts of that diagram to solve.

Because the work is formally verified we can throw out entire classes of LLM problems (like hallucinations).

Personally I think strongly typed language, with powerful type systems are also the long term ideal coding with LLMs (but I'm less optimistic about devs following this path).

j2kun a day ago | parent | next [-]

> A large amount of Tao's work

Perhaps you meant, "a decent amount of his recent work." He has been doing math long before LLMs, and is still regularly publishing papers with collaborators that have nothing to do with AI. The most recent was last week. https://arxiv.org/search/math?searchtype=author&query=Tao,+T

roadside_picnic a day ago | parent [-]

You are correct, I assumed context was implied, but I do mean "recent work with LLMs". Friends of mine where doing side projects with him about two decades ago, and I have a few of his books on my shelf, so yes, I am aware that Terry Tao was doing work in mathematics prior to the advent of LLMs.

zozbot234 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I don't believe that's what's happening in this specific example (and am probably wrong), but this is where a lot of Tao's enthusiasm lies.

It absolutely is. With the twist that ChatGPT 5.2 can now also "explain" an AI-generated Lean proof in human-readable terms. This is a game changer, because "refactoring" can now become end-to-end: if the human explanation of a Lean proof is hard to grok and could be improved, you can test changes directly on the formal text and check that the proof still goes through for the original statement.

roadside_picnic a day ago | parent [-]

Thank you, I had corrected it earlier when I had some time to further investigate what was happening.

Formal verification combined with AI is, imho, exactly the type of thinking that gets the most value out of the current state of LLMs.

amluto a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you consider the statement that perfect play by both sides in checked results in a draw to be the statement of a theorem, then the proof is 237GB compressed :) And verifying it requires quite a lot of computation.

https://www.science.org/cms/asset/7f2147df-b2f1-4748-9e98-1a...

cocoto a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> One naive belief many people have is that proofs should be "intelligible" but it's increasingly clear this is not the case.

That’s one of the main reason why I did not pursue an academic math career. The pure joy of solving exam problems with elegant proofs is very hard to get on harder problems.

wizzwizz4 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> One naive belief many people have is that proofs should be "intelligible" but it's increasingly clear this is not the case.

That's not a naïve belief. Intelligible proofs represent insight that can be applied to other problems. If our only proof is an opaque one, that means we don't really understand the area yet. Take, for example, the classification of finite simple groups (a ten-thousand-page proof): that is very much not a closed area of research, and we're still discovering new things in the vicinity of the problem.

threethirtytwo a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Math is the tip of the iceberg. If it can do proofs, it can do anything.

robotresearcher a day ago | parent [-]

I don’t have proofs to solve every day, but I have to cycle the dishwasher. I eagerly await.

threethirtytwo a day ago | parent [-]

Things like that it can’t do. But your job is more likely to be a target. Depends on what you do though.

a day ago | parent | prev [-]
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