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beloch a day ago

Don't give your "smart" TV internet access. It's that simple.

Samsung's chicanery taught me this, but other manufacturers are no better. Those TV apps may seem nice, but they can be run on hardware you have more control over. I'd recommend only buying "dumb" TV's, but they've become increasingly rare and expensive. Less costs more!

stein1946 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Don't give your "smart" TV internet access. It's that simple.

No it's not.

Am I supposed to counter every action taken by a conglomerate against me every time?

Do all the consumers have to align to this as well?

a TV must be a TV, in the same sense that orange juice must be made from oranges.

Looking forward to EU reining in on them.

TitaRusell 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's goddamn hilarious when during setup a device/software asks me if I live in the EU.

Makes me want to Spotify Beethoven.

bdbdbdb 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes all hail the EU.

Soon we'll have a popup before every individual show on Netflix asking us if we accept the cookies before we watch, all in the name of consumer protection

kimos 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Cookie pops are malicious compliance to regulations that legitimately protect consumers. You’ve cherry picked one bad side effect to throw out all the ways the EU is way ahead of anyone else in protecting consumers, most of which you don’t even notice because it’s hard to notice harm that did not happen.

bdbdbdb 13 hours ago | parent [-]

That's fair. I live in the EU and I love it here, and I'm glad for those protections every day. Except the damn cookie popup.

I don't agree they're malicious compliance though. I think it's just regular compliance.

geon 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Regular compliance would be be to stop tracking users.

A ton of websites don’t even track users but have the cookie popup because they think that’s what you’re supposed to do.

m463 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I worry about things like "improved" 5G technologies that let devices create their own connections. search for 5g miot or 5g redcap

more devices over time are getting plain cellular connections, let alone these newer cheaper versions.

jmward01 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Just shows how much you are worth as a product to them, and how little competition is in the cell market, that all these devices can get lifetime cell connections while we are paying, how much a month? Actually, lawsuits about privacy for devices like this should quote how much the infrastructure costs are to support their tech. The network, services, people, etc are all a good estimate of actual value, in dollars, they are deriving from selling you as a product.

zamadatix a day ago | parent [-]

We use a crap ton of calls/sms/data over the same period, expect decent QoS on well performing bands, and have a TON more customer management and onboarding overheard over the same 5-10 year period. Meanwhile devices with embedded telemetry might get a plan as low as 500 MB total over 10 years and have hundreds of thousands in a single sale with no customer support overheard, SIM reactivation on new phones, etc.

Are you getting as good a deal? No, probably not, but trying to compare them to the cellular service you pay for is problematic in many ways. You too can get a $14 10 year prepaid plan from 1NCE for your Pi to send sensor telemetry from on occasion if that's what you want instead of "normal" cell service.

I wouldn't mind companies having to disclose everything and anything about the telemetry they collect though. Just putting the dollar figure on it is unlikely to shock anyone as it is low for you to do the same thing too.

wolvoleo a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes or Amazon sidewalk. Also "great" as an unauthorized side channel exfiltration path.

mindslight a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Follow the example of how buying a Linux PC works. Look at popular brands where there are vibrant online communities of people neutralizing the surveillance / control bits - pulling out the 5G modems and whatnot. It's possible manufacturers will eventually arrive at using all-in-one integrated chipset where you can't just disconnect a daughterboard or scratch the appropriate traces to a radio chip, but we're so far from that.

kotaKat 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Bad news: we're actually closer than you'd think to that, considering how many cellular modems on their own are full blown SOC stacks and how far we've gotten into the eSIM camp.

mindslight 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Cell modems are their own SOCs, but are their application processors being used to implement the main functionality of the TV?

Maybe they are, with Android UIs and whatnot? I actually don't have any "smart" TVs (main TV is a 43 inch monitor driven directly by Kodi), so I'm still picturing the car model where there is a separate component that does WAN communications, and the software developers made the system tolerant of it being disconnected (for development ease and also resiliency to failures). But maybe my model is horribly wrong for TVs.

hnburnsy 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Appliance manufacturers are starting to lock features behind an app/connectivity. Bosch and I believe LG are putting certain wash cycles app only. The in app only functionality will just get more intrusive until morale improves.

bilsbie a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had this idea for a novel where we get a world wide mesh network internet via tvs trying to make their own internet to phone home.

ceejayoz a day ago | parent [-]

Already exists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk

SapporoChris 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The grandparent mentioned "world wide mesh network internet". Is Amazon Sidewalk world wide? The link you posted only mentioned it launched in the United States in 2021. https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/everything-you-need... shows a coverage map with large areas unserviced.

9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
john01dav a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Roku, when built-in to a TV, refuses to work as a dumb tv until you give it Internet access and sign in

quietsegfault a day ago | parent [-]

I have a Roku tv. I never plugged it in or gave it internet access. It works fine.

john01dav a day ago | parent [-]

It wasn't the case until iirc a few years ago. My guess is that you're on an old version of the software that didn't yet do this.

doublerabbit a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Don't give your "smart" TV internet access. It's that simple.

For the tech users yes, simple. But for the non-technical user it's not.

The ISP given router don't normally provide the options for such. Nor would my mother, father, brother, sister even know about the slightest about networking, isolating networks.

wtallis a day ago | parent [-]

The very simple solution that would work in practice is: don't give your TV your WiFi password.

3eb7988a1663 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Like everything in tech, they can be persistently annoying in asking. You may not do it, but can you be sure nobody in the house will?

ceejayoz a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My parents got a Samsung TV. At Christmas, I turned off all the data collection features (and some abysmal AI face filter that was ruining the latest Knives Out film). It very annoyingly started prompting to reenable them regularly.

doublerabbit a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Even simpler would be not to own a TV.

Sky TV the typical UK household satellite service now comes via your ISP as IPTV rather than dish. WiFi unfortunately then becomes the requirement.

testing22321 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Have not had a TV in over 20 years. Fantastic quality of life upgrade.

They’re colloquially called “idiot box” in Australia for a reason.

kelseyfrog a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

TV-free here for about 6 years. I'd recommend it. It takes some getting used to, but after acclimating, the presence of TVs has become annoying. I'm not sure why I'd want to lose myself for an hour or two to it when there's more fulfilling things in the world.

Mjr_Mojo a day ago | parent [-]

I can see where you're coming from with your "more fulfilling things" statement, but I disagree. After all, TV's don't spew noise they spew stories. I'm not gonna argue that all TV is fulfilling, but engaging with stories is one of the the things which separates us from animals and to me is one of the more fulfilling things in life.

mittensc 17 hours ago | parent [-]

> After all, TV's don't spew noise they spew stories.

Not really, TV in my experience it's all propaganda/stuff to keep you engaged and mad plus ads mixed in with some small content.

You're better off without broadcast TV... reading books, watching movies, socializing etc.

nickthegreek a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hooking up a streaming box is incredibly easy.

raw_anon_1111 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

So exactly where do I get a 60 inch monitor?

petepete 21 hours ago | parent [-]

This is an area I'm keeping an eye on - currently this 55" Gigabyte one is about as good as it gets, but it feels like it's straddling the line between monitor and TV, as it runs Android and supports CEC and eARC.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/S55U

Once a company like Iiyama, Dell or Philips releases a 65-75" model with Display Port, I'm just going to buy it. Fingers crossed they do.

brutal_chaos_ a day ago | parent | prev [-]

they can give the tv powers to autoconnect to public/open networks and can partner with companies like Comcast to get more access points. It's best not to buy a smart TV

Spivak a day ago | parent | next [-]

Everyone says this but is there even a single example of any TV manufacturer including a cellular chip or partnering with an ISP for this kind of access?

Yeah sure eventually the "don't give your TV network access" might stop working but it works today and for the foreseeable future. You're more likely to get a TV that refuses to operate without a network.

raw_anon_1111 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Absolutely no router has shipped in the last decade that I’m aware of that is open by default. ISP modems definitely don’t.

mw1 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Xfinity cable modem / router combos will create public Xfinity networks by default for many years now. Absolutely is something Xfinity could be selling access to for other corporations.

raw_anon_1111 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes and it even it requires you to log in first.

kotaKat 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

American cable operators set up a separately managed and isolated SSID and DOCSIS service flow to provide Hotspot2.0 access for their cellular subscribers (among other things). XfinityMobile/SpectrumMobile SSIDs are everywhere now out of the box being hosted off of ISP-issued hardware.

raw_anon_1111 14 hours ago | parent [-]

And it requires a log in.

kotaKat 13 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s where we have to circle back to the parent comment - a smart TV operator could 100% go buddy-buddy up with Xfinity/Spectrum/Cox/et al. and get Hotspot2.0 certs at the factory level to go hop onto whatever cable operators they want to target.