> not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans?

Please stick to the point and tell us - if this is your concern then why are you cheering on the large-scale openly criminal enterprise ? The total criminality and total cost of illegal (illegible!) immigrants is dwarfed by the current regime trashing our Constitution, trashing our economy, ballooning the debt, and trashing our standing as world leader, all to put our wealth in their own pockets. So please again, tell us, if this is really your actual concern why are you continuing to cheer support for the absolute worst offenders? Because they pointed at some outgroups and told you to distract yourself with them? Try having some self-respect.

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15155 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yawn. My concern goes far beyond monetary cost, given that political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) and that birthright citizenship exists.

By encouraging illegal immigration ("sanctuary cities"), you can "buy" depressed wages for the portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes, and voters at the expense of the nation's citizenry at large.

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mindslight 2 days ago | parent [-]

You were narrowly driving focus on "tax dollars". I was referencing costs beyond the monetary - the corrosive effect on what had remained of the rule of law, and consequently on individual liberty. The fish rots from the head - you can't throw away these things while imagining such actions are necessary to save them.

> political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census)

> you can "buy" depressed wages for portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes

Your first sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas going up. Your second sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas is going down. Which is it? Because really, it feels like this is the minimally-defensible remnant of the nonsense trope that illegible immigrants are voting - essentially handwaving implying "bad people" are responsible for creating our bad outcomes, rather than the reality that our political candidates are a race to the bottom and that our government has become wholly bought by corporate interests (open season under Trump). Reassigning a few House seats is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic - we're going to be paying for this Trumpist tantrum for decades, assuming we can even right the ship afterwards.

(also I will note that you have tacitly agreed that the current regime is a massive criminal enterprise stealing our "tax dollars" and accumulated national wealth)

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tech_ken 2 days ago | parent [-]

I think you're making the mistake that any of their points are cogent or intended to function as proper arguments. It's just bullshit chaff to make you waste time, and provide a patina of legitimacy for the fact that they really just want the US to be an ethnostate and will adopt whatever policy stance is convenient to that end. Note how at the start they're complaining about tax-dollar spending, and then later in the thread they hit you with "My concern goes far beyond monetary cost, the problem is really [SOME_OTHER_BULLSHIT]". There's no consistency; it's just sound and fury, signifying nothing.

	▲	mindslight 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		I am aware of this. I just don't see what else to do. 1. I actually believe in many of these lofty ideals that are being dishonestly abused by the fascists. 2. Discussing things in terms of abstract ideals is a Schelling point that at least creates a chance for people from disparate tribes to find common ground. 3. There are other people reading along that might be swayed by the disingenuous chaff standing unquestioned. 4. I'd say it's going too far to write off most people spouting this nonsense as fully consciously aware of a contradictory agenda they keep hidden. I'd say it's more like they bought into feel-good nonsense posed as opposition to the blue head of the authoritarian hydra, and then basically haven't examined it too hard. And I'd say much of the opposition groupthink framed in terms of directly clashing overt values doesn't help either. So I think it's valuable to point out the glaring hypocrisy even if many of them have learned to revel in it.