The decisions reg UI frameworks are largely due to internal political conflicts, mostly between DevDiv and Windows.

asveikau 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They have a lot of staff turnover too, and each generation of new SDE has less of a clue how the old stuff worked. So when they're tasked with replacing the old stuff, they don't understand what it does, and the rewrite ends up doing less.

That was my impression of one of the major problems when I worked there 2008-2011. But I don't think it's just one problem.

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easton 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From the outside looking in one wonders why this is allowed to continue. Microsoft’s old school “developer tools for money” business is slowly dying (because Visual Studio proper is less popular than its ever been since so much is targeting web), you would think they’d reorganize and move .net and GitHub and stuff into their cloud team and yeet whatever toxic leadership is preventing Windows from using Microsoft’s own frameworks.

IIRC .NET was banned from core Windows components after longhorn died, but its been 20 years. .NET is fast now, and C++ is faster still. Externally developed web frameworks shouldn’t be required for Windows.

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cjbgkagh 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It’s a largely dysfunctional org creating largely dysfunctional software, I.e. Conway law. Dysfunctional orgs tend not to be capable of fixing themselves, especially without external threat. Satya Nadella, like many CEOs, seems mostly interested in impressing his peers and these days that means fancy AI, before that it was Quantum chips.

Microsoft has produced some great technology and when I was last there I was definitely focusing on getting as much of the good stuff out into open source as possible.

Back in the early V8 days the execs imagined JavaScript would keep getting exponentially faster, I tired to explain with a similar investment anything V8 could do dotnet could do better as we had more information available for optimization.

	▲	kombine 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah, .NET is actually an impressive piece of tech. They have F# too which is a really solid programming language. And then they chose React of all things to build core OS UI.

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zamalek 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, as far as I understand it, that politics is: Sinofsky entrenched NIH on every team that he touched.

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markus_zhang 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just curious what is DevDiv? Tools division?

	▲	xmcp123 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		As I understand it, .NET, developer tools, and VS. Basically you have tight OS integration vs developer friendly cross platform.