| ▲ | gerdesj 12 hours ago |
| TIL: https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci - quite horrifying! EDIT: For comparison: https://gridwatch.co.uk/ |
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| ▲ | utopiah 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Well what's arguably even more horrifying is according to "Estimated average energy efficiency of bitcoin mining hardware" no significant changed happened since 2014. I imagine we went from CPU to GPU to ASIC in couple of years and now for more than a decade, no change, just more. |
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| ▲ | rcxdude 25 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, improved energy efficiency just means more hashes/s and the difficulty adjusting. There's nothing to be gained in terms of the security or efficiency of the network as a whole by making the hardware faster, it's only good for whoever makes and uses that hardware. | |
| ▲ | tenuousemphasis 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not sure what data you looking at but we went from 8300 J/TH in 2014 to 33.4 J/TH in 2023. So... what are you talking about? |
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| ▲ | bujkopl 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Since when is incentivizing low cost renewable energy horrifying? |
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| ▲ | rcxdude 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Bitcoin cares not for how much energy it uses, just how valuable the energy it uses is. This does not make more energy available to anyone else or reduce the price. | |
| ▲ | gerdesj 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My first link shows that Bitcoin consumes roughly 40GW and my second link shows that the UK roughly does too. There are a lot of ifs and buts here ... but the amount of power used to support the BT mechanism worldwide is roughly the same as the power consumption of the entirety of the UK. | | | |
| ▲ | D13Fd 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because every unit of electricity causes climate change and burns resources (even renewable sources of electricity - they just burn them slower). From a societal point of view we are dumping huge amounts of electricity and resources into a hole to accomplish nothing that couldn’t be accomplished with a database and a trusted third party at a billionth of the cost (or less). The vast majority of transactions are speculation on what other people might pay for a bitcoin (i.e., a line on a spreadsheet). And even then, that speculation and trading often occurs on secondary markets which rely on trusted third parties - thus rendering the entire ordeal even more pointless. | | |
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| ▲ | candiddevmike 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | observationist 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Unless your intent isn't making the world a better place in some sort of meaningful way, learn about things and find something to care about that you can affect that actually matters. Bitcoin or AI or whatever is not worth your time. Do something real. If we ever get to the point where bitcoin or what people are doing on servers is the most pressing problem in the world worthy of our outrage, I will cheer you on. "Anon yells at cloud" isn't worth anyone's effort or time. | |
| ▲ | OutOfHere 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Wait till you find out how much fossil fuel energy the US burns via its military to defend the dollar. Burning firewood actually immediately releases an extensive set of carcinogens, also causing depression. |
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| ▲ | roenxi 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | kfrzcode 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Meanwhile, Hedera remains carbon negative and 7 orders of magnitude more efficient than Bitcoin. "Today, Hedera is performing the equivalent of over 10,000,000 transactions and 788,000 transactions for the same amount of energy it takes Bitcoin and Ethereum to process 1, respectively." [0]: https://hedera.com/blog/going-carbon-negative-at-hedera-hash...
[1]: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10160701/ |
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| ▲ | ShowalkKama 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I find extremely funny that I came across this spammy comment while sitting on a vulnerability in their code because my attempts of contacting them have been unsuccessful | | | |
| ▲ | oofbey 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Everything is orders of magnitude more efficient than bitcoin. | |
| ▲ | wslh 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Databases either? |
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| ▲ | Zaskoda 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What this site does not show is how much of the power used to maintain the network is waste power such as gas that's normally burned off at the well site or hydro electric that goes to waste. Unlike AI, there's a strong incentive to find the cheapest electricity possible. Because that's what everyone else is doing. With Bitcoin, you now exactly what your costs are and what your yields are. There's a clear threshold, when power in an area becomes too expensive there's no reason left to mine. AI, on the other hand, is a bet on the future - infinite gains. No matter how much power costs, it's worth it to keep using as much as possible. We can't know how much power AI uses. Unlike Bitcoin, there aren't any metrics from which to extrapolate. But we do know that AI uses more power than Bitcoin already. We just have no idea how much more. |
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| ▲ | bb88 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > We can't know how much power AI uses. I call shenanigans on this statement. We can and most certainly can tell how much power AI is using. The upper bound is the total datacenter usage. | | | |
| ▲ | oofbey 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | BTC enthusiasts have very creative arguments for why their currency isn’t the a complete disaster for the climate. Like pointing fingers. | |
| ▲ | fragmede 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > gas that's normally burned off at the well site Funny thing about that. Civilized governments put a stop to that, by fining flare-offs to make it economical to not do that. | | |
| ▲ | nativeit 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Did they require the methane be captured? I thought flare-offs were done because the methane gas is something like 1000x worse than the CO2. | |
| ▲ | krupan 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I hadn't heard of this. Do they just allow the gas to go into the atmosphere instead? I've always heard that's worse than burning it | |
| ▲ | zoklet-enjoyer 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They still do it in North Dakota | |
| ▲ | UltraSane 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | flare-offs are much better than releasing raw methane into the atmosphere because methane is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2 |
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| ▲ | cyberax 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > What this site does not show is how much of the power used to maintain the network is waste power such as gas that's normally burned off at the well site or hydro electric that goes to waste. WTF? Hydro is rarely wasted because it's so dispatchable. Typically, it can only happen during high water seasons. Same for the gas power plants. > Unlike AI, there's a strong incentive to find the cheapest electricity possible. Like coal. | | |
| ▲ | beenBoutIT 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | An interesting point is that any nation state or corporation can focus resources on either AI or BTC, but not both at the same time. BTC is a sure bet in the long run while AI is potentially capable of delivering a faster ROI with no hard guarantees. As BTC FOMO hits every country on Earth it's likely that AI will take a 100+ year backseat to massive state sponsored BTC operations. It's not hard to imagine a situation where governments restrict AI HW manufacture and limit electricity for AI as a means of supporting the national BTC effort. | | |
| ▲ | UltraSane 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | "BTC is a sure bet in the long run " 7 transactions per second is NOT a sure bet. | | |
| ▲ | childintime 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | And don't discount the negative sentiment around bitcoin as the nest of types that deserve to be completely wrecked financially, because they add no value to society, as in a Ponzi scheme. It seems inevitable to me this scheme is going to end some day and nobody is going to give a damn. It'll be the "Good Riddance Coin", filled with negative sentiment. |
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| ▲ | johnnienaked 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And what does sucking up all that low cost electricity to waste on a frivolity do to the price of electricity in general? Cmon you remember supply and demand right |
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