Probably the same way that I can be assured your interpretation of red is mine.

einarfd 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Colors and color names are culture dependent, and you are not guaranteed that people in different cultures agree on what color something is.

The most famous of these discrepancies is Japan and green vs blue, or why does Jenkins by default use red, yellow and blue instead of red, yellow and green.

So I would urge using something other than colors as an example of shared human experience.

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shimman 6 hours ago | parent [-]

You're talking about culture and names, I am not. We all live in an objective reality where a red spectrum of light exists and we can differentiate among other colors.

This is the contention with the person I am replying to, they're acting as if objective reality doesn't exist. Humans can think, LLMs cannot.

If you can't admit to this there's nothing else worth discussing, but please don't mind my hands covering my wallet as I slowly back out of the room.

	▲	shermantanktop 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> we can differentiate among other colors. Some of us color-deficient people can’t. I only accept that stop signs are “red” because all the normies say it is. Your point stands, but color perception is not the best example for it.

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kshahkshah 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Some people are colorblind. Some people have more or less cones and rods. Our interpretation of colors is certainly not the same

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mrbungie 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You should steel-man the argument. GP is talking about qualia, obviously for the sake of the argument you assume the comparison is between two people with similar eyes.

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hyperhello 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Steel-man is such a weird expression. There are no steel men. How about saying "The opponent's best argument".

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collingreen 9 hours ago | parent [-]

The steel men (armored enemy knights) are exactly the inverse of the straw man (training dummy) metaphor. I think it's a fantastic term since it directly addresses the point (tackle the best opposing arguments head on instead of a poor subset/facsimile of them), it fits within the existing straw man metaphor, it's terse, and it's very clear.

	▲	hyperhello 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Thanks for replying.

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nawgz 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The wild success of traffic lights disagrees with your statement.

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inetknght 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The wild success of traffic lights is only wildly successful to those who aren't color blind. Do some reading.

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness

> The colors of traffic lights can be difficult for red–green color-blind people. This difficulty includes distinguishing red/amber lights from sodium street lamps, distinguishing green lights (closer to cyan) from white lights, and distinguishing red from amber lights, especially when there are no positional clues (see image).

Publication from 1983: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1875309/

> All but one admitted to difficulties with traffic signals, one admitted to a previously undeclared accident due to his colour blindness, and all but one offered suggestions for improving signal recognition. Nearly all reported confusion with street and signal lights, and confusion between the red and amber signals was common.

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nawgz 8 hours ago | parent [-]

What a horrendous counter-argument. "People with notable perception issues don't perceive the same" is insanely obvious.

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onraglanroad 8 hours ago | parent [-]

People not perceiving in the same way (the original point) is exactly the same as "notable perception issues".

	▲	bawolff 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		That's misunderstanding what the original argument is about. You really think that people have been debating for thousands of years if colour blind people exist, with no conclusion in sight?

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nickthegreek 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The wild success of traffic lights comes from having 3 colors at fixed positions. You put those 3 colors in a single color changing light and I would assume the accident rate would measurably increase.

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evilduck 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The fact that a single emitter traffic light that simply varies its color doesn't exist also disagrees with your statement.