They're not in the core language group... Do these people have influence in the stdlib, compiler, prominent libraries? Kernel community?

Why judge the whole Rust community for the choices made by one minor subgroup?

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pseudony 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This has been covered ad nauseam, but since rust advocacy has waded into enough discussions about code in other languages to lecture people on performance and safety, it has naturally pushed some to find a bit of satisfaction in commenting on shortcomings in rust projects.

And this is very much also something which is helped along by the community’s defining voices.

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testdelacc1 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s a common HN trope to generalise a “community” based on a handful of people or even just one person. “See this is why I dislike the xyz community”, says a person justifying their confirmation bias.

Perhaps the world is too complex without breaking it down into in-groups and out-groups, with any out-groups supposedly being completely homogenous. Pretty intellectually lazy but fairly common on HN, to the point where it’s not even worth calling out.

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johnisgood 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I mean, I was going to reply "take a wild guess" to him, but your message is correct, too.

(I may come across as an Ada zealot myself.)

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jacquesm 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You may be correct but pjmlp is not one of those and if you had been here long enough you would have known that. You're the one creating an in-group here and putting yourself on the 'good' side. Perhaps that is too complex for you but I think it is intellectually lazy not to get who you're referring to before making comments such as these. Note that your strawman "See this is why I dislike the xyz community" wasn't part of this thread at all.

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pjmlp 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A community is made by all of its participants.

One could also say some in the C or C++ communities actually care about security, thus no need for Rust or alike, yet no one is paying attention to those small groups in the corner.

A village is judged by its population actions, and even the black sheeps count to its overall image from outsiders.

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jacquesm 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Indeed. If there is one person here that keeps their footing in language debates it is you (and I'm always blown away with how many details you have at instant recall that I never realized were there). So thank you for the lessons over the years, it has helped me evaluate my choices better.

As for that sentence: I think Rust has its place, I do not agree at all with their 'rewrite' mantra because there are a ton of risks associated with rewrites that have nothing to do in what language the code is written in, just that it is a rewrite.

I think the Rust folks should go all-in on Redox and fix their tool optimization issues. And do one thing and do that well rather than to be the next Swiss army knife of programming. And I also think that the C and C++ folks can do a lot better still. Filip is doing something interesting I think and if there a practical solution to the C heritage I think it lies more in his direction than in rewriting billions of lines of battle tested code. Performance isn't nearly as important as it used to be. Another thing that I think would be beneficial would be to take as many device drivers out of the linux kernel as possible and run them as userspace processes.

Anyway, belated Merry Christmas to you and a pre-emptive happy 2026!

	▲	pjmlp 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Same, all the best for 2026.

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testdelacc1 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That dude said “even worse when coming from supposedly security conscious programming language community”. The comment is dripping with contempt, pointing out that the “community” makes tall claims that are unfounded. And he said this based purely on one comment. This contempt clearly indicated a dislike, which I generalised to “I dislike xyz community”. To which you reply with “strawman”. Sure.

You’re then accusing me of being intellectually lazy for not giving high karma accounts the respect they deserve. Come off it. I’m going to judge comments by their content, not by the karma of the author. You shaming me is not going to make me change that.

What’s crazy is that judging people by their karma instead of their words is actually lazy. Isn’t this obvious? Do I need to get another 20k karma before you’ll understand that?

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jacquesm 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Here's you:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46352728

So apparently it is fine for you to call out low karma accounts but I can't have you shit on a member in excellent standing here?

The Rust community has - rightly, in my opinion - flagged a number of serious concerns about language safety. Outside of that Rust is just another programming language and languages are just one of the parts of the security picture. There is process, general hygiene and a lot of hard learned lessons about how you keep systems secure regardless of what language a particular piece of code is written in.

Given the amount of Rust evangelization on HN (which is one of the reasons this link got posted in the first place) and the fact that they can't let any opportunity go by to shit on other languages and those that use them for reasons that are unclear to me (and this goes quite far, up to and including questioning the sanity of anybody writing in a systems language other than Rust) you can expect that that higher standard is applied to the Rust advocates in the same way.

Action begets reaction.

Your response is telling: you make a personal attack on a member of HN and then hide behind pointing out the flaws in 'the community' when in fact it is you that is poisoning the community with these kind of comments.

I've made it a rule since a couple of weeks that I'm tossing accounts like that onto my blacklist because really, life's too short. If you don't see value in HN discussing languages and their communities (and I have to give the Rust community some credit here, as the language matures they've become more realistic about their abilities and there is less zealotry, especially Steve Klabik deserves a mention) then it may be that you are in the wrong place. For me your account will cease to exist after this comment.

	▲	4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		[deleted]
	▲	testdelacc1 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I didn’t make a personal attack on anyone, although you did to me. Me calling out a sock puppet account (0 karma, created minutes before) is not the same as you saying that high karma accounts need to have their opinions respected simply because they are high karma. Coincidentally, I notice your account is very high karma. You’re acting extraordinarily offended, like I’ve committed some major transgression here. I haven’t. I’ve re-read my comments and they’re frankly milquetoast.

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6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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pjmlp 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Because the actions of everyone count to the wide perception of a community from the outside.

Rust Striking Force meme exists for a reason, their actions are also not supported by the core team.

	▲	ksec 5 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		>Rust Striking Force meme exists for a reason, their actions are also not supported by the core team. Many of the core team and by large its community witness RESF in action for long before sending in a few words isn't exactly not supported in my book. But then again I understand every PL needs a lot of push and marketing. It just went way too far in one direction.
	▲	monocasa 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Do they interact at all with the main rust community? It seems a little disingenuous to describe "community" as including people who haven't even attempted to interact with anyone in the community other than forking their code.