Remix.run Logo
isoprophlex 7 hours ago

Incredible! A mushroom that bruises blue, but the visions are seemingly unlike traditional tryptamines, and there's no psilocybin found in the mushroom. Also no muscimol present (the thing in Fly Agaric, the 'other' type of hallucinogenic mushroom compound) yet there's definitely a consistent syndrome of hallucinations if you eat it undercooked.

Could this mean we're on the brink of discovering an entirely new class of hallucinogens?

culi 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

From the Wikipedia

> In 2023, Lanmaoa asiatica received international media attention after U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen was reported to have eaten a dish that contained it during an official visit to China. Yellen stated that the dish had been thoroughly cooked, and she experienced no ill effects (hallucinations).

It seems Rubroboletus sinicus, another bolete, is also suspected to have this effect. These hallucinogenic mushrooms are collectively known as "xiao ren ren" in China.

They seem to be relatively well known in parts of China, the Philippines, and Papua New Guinea but the ethnomycological work in English is just not really there.

It also seems like it's most likely something in the tryptamine class which could explain the blue bruising. The Wikipedia page has more info

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogenic_bolete_mushroom

renewiltord 6 hours ago | parent [-]

xiǎo rén rén? Like “small people”? Okay, if the mushrooms are literally called little guy mushroom and you see little guys running around then surely this is an old discovery.

culi 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well yes ofc this is an old "discovery". Boletes are known choice edibles around the world so ofc people would discover that if they undercook this mushroom they would trip. We even have some written history about it:

> The Chinese Daoist Ge Hong wrote in Baopuzi (The Master Who Embraces Simplicity) around 300 CE that eating a certain wild mushroom raw would result in attainment of transcendence immediately, suggesting that the mushrooms may have been known for thousands of years.

thaumasiotes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't look like 小人人 refers to the mushrooms. It refers to the hallucinations, and is not necessarily expected to include visions of people:

> "No!," she said, most emphatically, "They are real. I have seen them myself!"

> Miss Oh clearly remembered the hallucinations that began that evening and continued into the next day. The walls moved and shifted in geometrical patterns and strange shapes appeared.

> "I'm sleepy all day," she said in English. "I see them. And I see flies bigger than the actual one, perhaps two times big. I see little insects. Not all the time, but when the water splashed out." She apparently became fascinated by the dripping kitchen faucet, for each drop would, upon hitting the sink, sprout wings and legs and crawl away. And she remembered, very clearly, staring intently at the bows of her shoelaces until they turned into butterflies and fluttered off.

The paper devotes quite a bit of text to explaining that the mushrooms bearing this quality have no specific name, and in fact are not distinguished from non-hallucinogenic mushrooms at all. They are referred to by their property of turning blue when handled, which is a property not exclusive to the hallucinogenic ones.

https://sci-hub.se/https://www.jstor.org/stable/40390492

Interestingly, despite this prior paper being cited by this press release, and despite the fact that the prior paper devotes almost a page to describing the difficulty of identifying which mushroom(s) might be hallucinogenic given that the people of Yunnan never draw any distinctions between them, this press release assures us that identification of the hallucinogenic species was as simple as asking market vendors in Yunnan whether this was the mushroom that caused hallucinations.

cess11 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It doesn't count until an occidental university has written some stories about it and claimed to be the real discoverer due to having put some stuff in one of their taxonomies.

stinkbeetle 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That's not true at all.

Today's occidental universities would have to pay faux homage to "the poor helpless natives" who were the original custodians of the discovery but were too uncomplicated to do much with it, so with their wonderful generosity these kindly westerners did them the great service of elevating their voices, etc.

poulpy123 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> mushroom sized > blue when bruised > make see small fairy people

did they found the schtroumpf village ?

consp 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Is any of the variants called gargamel or a latin variant of it in the scientific name 'by accident'?

decimalenough 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Aka the Smurfs in English.

5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
ipsum2 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These mushrooms have been eaten for thousands of years. Does it really count as a new discovery? Maybe isolating the specific compound does.

isoprophlex 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What excites me as a chemist (and as someone who dabbled in psychedelics as a teenager) is the prospect of identification the active components... and it turning out to be an entirely new class of chemicals.

The great, late Alexander Shulgin made his fame through systematic tweaking of the tryptamine and phenethylamine backbones, giving rise to many interesting psychoactive, mostly psychedelic compounds. Nature has a few more classes of psychedelics, but it's very rare to come across an entirely new category of molecular compounds.

Because the hallucinations are seemingly distinct from the effects from traditional psychedelic, that's... pretty tantalizing. But the mushroom does bruise blue, which is what tryptamine-containing magic mushrooms also do.

It's super exciting, all in all. It's either a cultural or mass psychological effect (but I doubt it personally), an as of yet unidentified tryptamine-like compound that's highly active (and thus difficult to isolate because theres relatively little mass of it) or an entirely novel chemical class.

culi 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the point GP was making was to take issue with framing like "and it turning out to be an entirely new class of chemicals."

More accurately we can say "an entirely newly described class of chemicals". Even before penicillin was isolated and described for the first time, soldiers would keep moldy pieces of bread and use them on wounds (Penicillium being the most common bread mold). Even Ötzi the iceman was found to be carrying a piece of fungi that we know was used to kill parasitic worms.

While these traditions didn't conceptualize their medicines as compounds or chemicals, they were certainly well aware of their effects. Sometimes intimately so.

All that aside though, there are bolete species documented to have tryptamine content so I would be a little surprised if the active compound(s) in question here aren't also tryptamines. Although I did read that Dennis McKenna hypothesized it could be an anticholinergic effect (i.e. Datura alkaloids)

anthk 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You would love the readings from Mckenna and the DMT, and the concept of Fractal Time.

https://serendipity.li/trypt.html

List:

https://serendipity.li/dmt/dmtart00.html

Yeah, I know, pseudoscience and the like, but biology it's weird and with the current scientific discoveries (and even reusing quantum mechanics for profit, such as chlorofilla with leafs and photons), Nature itself it's 'magical'. Not actually something from fairy tales, but from weird mechanics we are actually grasping a little today.

Instead of my comment from I-Ching being taken as numerology, I would think of the universe as something being 'computed over', kinda like numeric towers under Lisp. Because in the end nothing exists per se; it's just fields generating matter, waves, energy and probably, information. Thus, the Mckenna theory on Fractal Time (and the Chinese paper from Vixra) might be related to hypercubic equations (because of Hamming distance between changes) that we aren't fully aware.

ericmay 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t think the article was insinuating that these mushrooms were a new discovery, they’ve been known not just in the region but to scientists for some time, though they did assert that this is the first time that the DNA had been sequenced.

bilsbie 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or a new reality…