Pike, stone throwing, glass houses, etc.

The AI village experiment is cool, and it's a useful example of frontier model capabilities. It's also ok not to like things.

Pike had the option of ignoring it, but apparently throwing a thoughtless, hypocritical, incoherently targeted tantrum is the appropriate move? Not a great look, especially for someone we're supposed to respect as an elder.

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NegativeK 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think you're misrepresenting what Pike is mad about, why he's as mad as he is, and what Markov bots are.

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KaiserPro 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Its not really a glass house.

Pike's main point is that training AI at that scale requires huge amounts of resources. Markov chains did not.

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preommr 8 hours ago | parent [-]

At the risk of being pedantic, it's not AI that requires massive resources, chatgpt 3.x was trained on a few million dollars. The jump to trillions being table stakes happened because everyone started using free services and there was just too much money in the hands of these tech companies. Among other things.

There are so many chickens that are coming home to roost where LLMs was just the catalyst.

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KaiserPro 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> it's not AI that requires massive resources

no it really is. If you took away training costs, OpenAI would be profitable.

When I was at meta they were putting in something like 300k GPUs in a massive shared memory cluster just for training. I think they are planning to triple that, if not more.

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YetAnotherNick 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah for some reason AI energy use is so overreported. Using chatgpt for query does not even use two order of magnitude less energy compared to toasting a bread. And you can eat bread untoasted too if you care about energy use.

[1]: https://epoch.ai/gradient-updates/how-much-energy-does-chatg...

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ori_b 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How many slices of toast are you making a day?

If you fly a plane a millimeter, you're using less energy than making a slice of toast; would you also say that it's accurate that all global plane travel is more efficient than making toast?

	▲	YetAnotherNick 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		1-2 slice a day and 1-50 chatgpt query per day. For me it would be within same order of magnitude, and I don't really care about both as both of them are dwarfed by my heater or aircon usage.

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KaiserPro 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

From my estimation each second of gpt eats about 0.5-1.5 watthours

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YetAnotherNick 7 hours ago | parent [-]

You can say it takes 1800-5400 W. Not sure where you are estimating it from.

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KaiserPro 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Depending on what you're doing its taking up to 8GPUs working in parallel to serve those queries.

	▲	YetAnotherNick 43 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Yes but then the batch size is in 100s or even 1000s. These GPU doesn't serve just 1 user at a time.

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PunchyHamster 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think he stole entirety of published copyrighted works to make it

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emp17344 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They effectively set up a spambot. It’s ok for him to be upset.

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bgwalter 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is really getting desperate. Markov chains were fun in those days. You might as well say that anyone who ever wrote an IRC bot is not allowed to criticize current day "AI".

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observationist 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Pike's posts aren't criticism, they're whinging. There's no reasoned, principled position there - he's just upset that an AI dared sully his inbox, and lashing out at the operators.

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tmseidman 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

On the contrary, there's absolutely a reasoned, principled position here. Pike isn't a hypocrite for creating a Markov chain bot trained on the contents of an ancient public domain work and the contents of a single usenet group, and still complaining about modern LLMs; there's a huge difference in legality and scale. Modern LLMs use orders of magnitude more resources and are trained on protected material.

Now, I don't think he was writing a persuasive piece about this here, I think he was just venting. But I also feel like he has a reason to vent. I get upset about this stuff too, I just don't get emails implying that I helped bring about the whole situation.

	▲	nmstoker 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		How is this substantively different from the endless spam we all receive from clueless illiterate spammers?

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11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]

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tensor 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you think it was "fun" for the people whose time got wasted interacting with something they initially thought was a person? On a dating website? Sure, "trolling" people was a thing back then like it is now, but trolling was always and still is asshole behaviour.