The cat's out of the bag. Even if US companies stop building data centers, China isn't going to stop and even if AI/LLMs are a bubble, do we just stop and let China/other countries take the lead?

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decide1000 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

China and Europe (Mistral) show that models can be very good and much smaller then the current Chatgpt's/Claudes from this world. The US models are still the best, but for how long? And at what cost? It's great to work daily with Claude Code, but how realistic is it that they keep this lead.

This is a new tech where I don't see a big future role for US tech. They blocked chips, so China built their own. They blocked the machines (ASML) so China built their own.

	▲	MangoCoffee 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		>This is a new tech where I don't see a big future role for US tech. They blocked chips, so China built their own. They blocked the machines (ASML) so China built their own. Nvidia, ASML, and most tech companies want to sell their products to China. Politicians are the ones blocking it. Whether there's a future for US tech is another debate.
	▲	mk89 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> but how realistic is it that they keep this lead. The Arabs have a lot of money to invest, don't worry about that :)

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mmooss 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's an old argument of tech capitalists that nothing can be done because technology's advance is like a physical law of nature.

It's not; we can control it and we can work with other countries, including adversaries, to control it. For example, look at nuclear weapons. The nuclear arms race and proliferation were largely stopped.

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machinationu 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Philosophers argued since 200 years ago, when the steam engine was invented, that technology is out of our control and forever was, and we are just the sex organs for the birth of the machine god.

	▲	goatlover 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		"There is nothing so absurd that some philosopher has not already said it." - Cicero

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MangoCoffee 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Technology improves every year; better chips that consume less electricity come out every year. Apple's M1 chip shows you don't need x86, which consumes more electricity and runs cooler for computing.

Tech capitalists also make improvements to technology every year

	▲	mmooss 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I agree absolutely (though I'd credit a lot of other people in addition to the capitalists). How does that apply to this discussion?

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Alex2037 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>It's an old argument of tech capitalists that nothing can be done because technology's advance is like a physical law of nature.

it is.

>The nuclear arms race and proliferation were largely stopped.

1. the incumbents kept their nukes, kept improving them, kept expanding their arsenals.

2. multiple other states have developed nukes after the treaty and suffered no consequences for it.

3. tens of states can develop nukes in a very short time.

if anything, nuclear is a prime example of failure to put a genie back in the bottle.

	▲	mmooss 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> kept improving them, kept expanding their arsenals. They actually stopped improving them (test ban treaties) and stopped expanding their arsenals (various other treaties).

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eru 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The world is bigger than US + China.

	▲	MangoCoffee 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I'm not sure what your point is. The current two leading countries in the world on the AI/LLMs front are the US and China.

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rg2004 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes.