I appreciate a good debate. However, this won’t fit in one. It is tasteless, offensive, and stupid to compare storing the result of HTTP GET without paying someone to slavery in the 1800s. Full stop.

Anyone tempted to double down on this: sure, maybe, someday it’s like The Matrix or whatever. I was 12 when it came out & understood that was a fictional extreme. You do too. And you stumbled into a better analogy than slavery in 1800s.

▲

mmooss 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You're changing the subject. What about the actual point?

▲

refulgentis 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲

beeflet 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Change the law so you can't train on copyrighted work without permission from the copyright holder.

>harassed

This just in, anonymous forum user SHOCKINGLY HARASSED, PELTED with HIGH-SPEED ideas and arguments, his positions BRUTALLY ATTACKED and PUBLICLY DEFACED.

	▲	anoncareer0212 an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Been here for many years and haven’t seen behavior as boorish as this, especially from a self appointed debate club president. Post you’re replying to: Which is what? I’m honestly unsure. Could be: we need to nuke the data centers, or unseat any judge that has allowed this, or somehow move the law from “it’s cool to do matmuls with text as long as you have the right to read it.” Not against any of those but I’m sure I’m Other Team coded to you given the amount of harassment you’ve done in this thread to me and others.

▲

jakelazaroff 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I mean, yeah, if you omit any objectionable detail and describe it in the most generic possible terms then of course the comparison sounds tasteless and offensive. Consider that collecting child pornography is also "storing the result of an HTTP GET".

▲

refulgentis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What was the objectionable detail I forgot to include? Feeding the HTTP GET result to an AI? Then it’s the same as slavery? Sounds clearly wrong to me.

▲

jakelazaroff 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, I pointed out that your attempt to straw man my comment was so overly broad that it also describes collecting child pornography. Why not engage specifically with what I'm saying?

▲

anoncareer0212 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What didn’t they engage with?

It’s really hard to parse this thread because you and the other gentleman keep telling anyone who engages they aren’t engaging.

You both seem worked up and perceiving others as disagreeing with you wholesale on the very concept that AI companies could be forced to compensate people for training data, and morally injuring you.

Your conduct to a point, but especially their conduct, goes far beyond what I’m used to on HN. I humbly suggest you decouple yourself a bit from them, you really did go too far with the slavery bit, and it was boorish to then make child porn analogy.

▲

jakelazaroff 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If you believe my conduct here is inappropriate, feel free to alert the mods. I think it's pretty obvious why describing someone's objections to AI training data as "storing the result of an HTTP GET" is not a good faith engagement.

	▲	anoncareer0212 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It’s not clear from anything either of you have written what the difference is between “AI training data” and “storing the result of an HTTP GET [and matmul’ing it]” is. All we have is an exquisite, thoughtful, nuanced, analogy of how it is exactly like America enslaving Black people in the 1800s. i.e. a cheap appeal to morality. Then, it is followed by repeated brow-beating comment to anyone who replied, complaining something wasn’t being engaged with. What exactly wasn’t being engaged with? It is still unclear. Do feel free to share, or apologize even. It’s understandable you went a bit too far because you really do feel it’s the same as slavers in the 1800s in America, what’s not understandable is complaining no one is engaging correctly.

▲

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]

▲

ronsor 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The objection to CSAM is rooted in how it is (inhumanely) produced; people are not merely objecting to a GET request.

	▲	beeflet 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Yes, they're objecting to people training on data they don't have the right to, not just the GET request as you suggest. If you distribute child porn, that is a crime. But if you crawl every image on the web and then train a model that can then synthesize child porn, the current legal model apparently has no concept of this and it is treated completely differently. Generally, I am more interested in how this effects copyright. These AI companies just have free reign to convert copyrighted works into the public domain through the proxy of over-trained AI models. If you release something as GPL, they can strip the license, but the same is not true of closed-source code which isn't trained on.
	▲	jakelazaroff 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Indeed, and neither is that what people are objecting to with regard to AI training data.

▲

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]