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conqrr 8 hours ago

> In the software engineering world, we exist on a ladder. We call this ”Leveling”.

Career is a made up game. There are no true levels or ladders in life that you have to chase. Nobody will care or remember what you did or what level you were given enough timespan. Take the bits that you want (money, skills etc) to live life, but don't get too caught up trying to win the game.

MobiusHorizons 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

+1. Worth saying this is also not at all a software engineering thing, it’s a large organization thing. I found I could easily discuss career leveling with non-technical government employees. In fact they have much more context than my friends in software engineering that never worked for large companies.

BoxFour 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Take the bits you want (money, skills)

That’s exactly what the author did, and it’s why the leveling piece matters so much.

At big tech companies levels very directly control comp, and less directly control the scope of problems you’re trusted with.

You absolutely can tackle large, high-impact problems as a more junior IC, but it usually means pushing a lot harder to hold onto ownership. Otherwise it’s REAL easy for a more senior IC to step in and quietly take it over.

mgaunard 8 hours ago | parent [-]

It might be nicer to go work for startups, acquire experience there as you build everything from scratch across the whole stack, then get hired at a high responsibility position.

Though most people into entrepreneurship never go back to big corporations usually.

kace91 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>acquire experience there as you build everything from scratch across the whole stack

This is not usually how it works. In fact in my experience, the moment a company becomes a scaleup and brings new leadership in to handle growth, those people start getting rid of the hacky jack of all trades profiles.

Larger companies usually value specialized profiles. They don’t benefit from someone half assing 20 roles, they have the budget to get 20 experts to whole ass one role each.

Career paths in large companies usually have some variation of “I’m the go-to expert for a specific area” as a bullet point somewhere.

ehnto 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Smaller companies necessarily have a small team stretched across broad responsibilities, that usually describes startups. If it's scaling up then yeah, that changes. You want to join small teams for broad experience, startup or regular business.

BoxFour 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Big tech companies are also notorious for down-leveling if you’re not coming from another big company, so it might not actually be that good of a move.

mgaunard 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Well of course, if you were CTO of a company of 10, you can't expect to be hired as CTO of Google.

BoxFour 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My first manager at a big tech co was the CTO of a 500 person company. He was down-leveled to being a first-level manager.

dylan604 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is why titles on biz cards are funny.

ghaff 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Most of my titles have been pretty made-up (with acquiescence of manager). Never had the formal levels seen at large tech companies. Last job description was written for me and didn't even make a lot of sense if you squinted to hard. Made a couple of iterations for business cards over time.

Couldn't have told you what the HR titles were in general.

zhach 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Very much so. Author here. I wanted to do so much more than the box they allocated me in. Once I knew they were not going to let me grow from my box, then I left. Not the level I was worried about, but it's a language most people can understand

justinclift an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Any chance the problem with your promotion was someone above you taking credit for your work?

gct 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The Box is very frustrating, especially when there's no one handling the other things, yet you're still not allowed to do them because it'd make the wrong people look bad.

venturecruelty an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Career is a made-up game, but man, being homeless and hungry sure does suck, eh?

mattgreenrocks 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The purpose of a system is what it does. If the org truly cared about under-leveled employees, it would get fixed rapidly.

But they don’t.

I’ve seen enough people glossed over repeatedly and then when enough people leave and the org is in a less leveraged position, then the promos are no longer an issue. Such BS.

CrossVR an hour ago | parent [-]

You have to realize that a company is always optimizing for efficiency and salaries are no different.

Giving out promotions when people are already working at the level they'd be promoted to is simply a waste of money.

This is the author's biggest mistake. If you voluntarily work on tasks above your pay grade you are signaling to the company that you don't need a promotion.

reactordev 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It took me a long time to realize this.

tamimio 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly, that’s why I feel pity for the people who destroy their lives to get paid extra 5% and having a pizza party with good boy remarks, and of course making someone else wealthier too. It’s not a flex to sleep in a tent at work, while neglecting your health, family, friends, maybe kids, this “grind” culture is pushed by corporations for obvious reasons.

dkasper 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Except at big tech the next level might be 500k more not 5%

saghm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And yet, how many people are actually happier with that extra $500k? It's one thing if you're not making enough to allow you and whoever else you might need to support to be happy and comfortable and be able to save enough for emergencies and retirement, but I'm dubious that someone only one other away from a half million dollar raise is in that position.

immibis an hour ago | parent [-]

Something that's often overlooked is the time equivalent of money. If the average salary is $50k but you get $500k, you only have to work 1 year in every 10, and that's crazy.

Source: got paid 180k and took 2 years off.

FireBeyond an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

That might be if you're hitting a "distinguished" level or moving from IC to M or M to E.

Even at Netflix who is famous for "all cash, no stock, almost never bonuses": https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-e...

Biggest jump is 400K and that's at L7, for Principal SE, the top level. Below that each level is about a $100-150K jump. Nothing to complain about, to be clear.

I_AM_A_SMURF 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

E6 -> E7 at Meta is $1M (which sounds a little bit crazy tbh). Google L6 -> L7 is 300k, but their numbers look smaller than what I'm privy too. A generic Level 6 to 7 (staff to senior staff) promotion can easily be $500k at a tech company.

lisbbb 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

See? That's his first problem--he bought into all that corpo bs that is placed there to steal your attention and keep you in their box. If they had liked the guy and he was truly talented, he would have gazzelled right up the org chart. I guess smart people think they're smart about everything?