| ▲ | rwoll a day ago |
| Prior to reading the article, I assumed Waymos were stuck due to an Internet connectivity issue. However, while the root cause is not explicitly stated, it sounds like the Waymos are “confused” by traffic lights being out. |
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| ▲ | adrianmonk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I wonder how Waymos know that the traffic lights are out. A human can combine a ton of context clues. Like, "Well, we just had a storm, and it was really windy, and the office buildings are all dark, and that Exxon sign is normally lit up but not right now, and everything seems oddly quiet. Evidently, a power outage is the reason I don't see the traffic light lit up. Also other drivers are going through the intersection one by one, as if they think the light is not working." It's not enough to just analyze the camera data and see neither green nor yellow nor red. Other things can cause that, like a burned out bulb, a sensor hardware problem, a visual obstruction (bird on a utility cable), or one of those louvers that makes the traffic light visible only from certain specific angles. Since the rules are different depending on whether the light is functioning or not, you really need to know the answer, but it seems hard to be confident. And you probably want to err on the side of the most common situation, which is that the lights are working. |
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| ▲ | ajmurmann 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's what I thought. Then I walked buy Waymos stuck in the middle of the block with nobody in front of them. |
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| ▲ | VonTum 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I miss the time when "confused" for a computer program was meant in a humorous way. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | > miss the time when "confused" for a computer program was meant in a humorous way Not sure what about this isn’t funny. Nobody died. And the notion that traffic lights going down would not have otherwise caused congestion seems silly. | | |
| ▲ | victorbojica 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not directly. But what about the emergency services not being able to reach their destinations? It stops being funny really fast | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > what about the emergency services not being able to reach their destinations? Did they have documented problems? This is akin to the Waymos honking at each other at 3AM. Annoying. Potentially dangerous in various circumstances. But ultimately just destructive in a way unlikely to repeat. | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Have you seen how human drivers deal with traffic lights and emergency vehicles at the same time? Waymo made the right call to suspend service, they will probably update their playbook to suspend service during power outages in the future. | | |
| ▲ | cmurf 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Humans certainly are imperfect and make mistakes, but will iterate with the understanding that doing nothing at all and blocking emergency vehicles is untenable. At the least we will fall back to incentive/disincentive social behavior. People will supply ample friendly and unfriendly advice to try to unwind the knot. Waymo should lose their operating license based on this experience. It's self-evidently dangerous to everyone to be incapable of basic iteration. There's a whole set of law driver's are supposed to follow for handling failed traffic lights. Why have lower expectations of an anonymous car than a human? | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Waymo should lose their operating license based on this experience. Then everyone should lose their licenses as well by your draconian reasoning. Because… > There's a whole set of law driver's are supposed to follow for handling failed traffic lights. And they don’t, it’s chaos. > Why have lower expectations of an anonymous car than a human? You obviously have higher expectations for autonomous cars than humans, it is not the other way around for those of us who disagree with you. The only difference is that Waymo can get better with experience and humans generally don’t. | | |
| ▲ | jjav 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > > There's a whole set of law driver's are supposed to follow for handling failed traffic lights. > And they don’t, it’s chaos. Do you live in areas where traffic lights go out regularly? Because for human driver it is a non-issue. It becomes an all-way stop and you take turns, it is easy. Traffic throughput slows down a bit, but nothing approaching chaos about it. If waymo can't deal with this, that's a problem. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > for human driver it is a non-issue Genuine question, do we have data for accident rates in traffic-lights-out intersections? | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | If I remember my research correctly, accident rates go up but fatalities and injuries go way down. |
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| ▲ | will4274 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Developing new technologies has risks. In the absence of anything really bad actually happening, I think we can solve the problem by adding new requirements to Waymo's operating license (and all self driving cars) rather than kneecapping the technology. |
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| ▲ | fragmede 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Same thing as if human drivers have crashed their cars in the middle of an intersection due to traffic lights being out, I would presume. |
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| ▲ | jollymonATX 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Would have hoped they trained for this but at least now they likely will be. |
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| ▲ | platevoltage 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That sounds plausible. Humans for the most part can usually navigate that situation to a point. It wouldn't surprise me if Waymo cars weren't even trained for this scenario. |
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| ▲ | scoofy 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I lived in the training zone for both Waymo and Cruise. They were there for literally years before they were offering rides to anyone. The idea that they could train them for emergency scenarios, especially ones that happen so infrequently like a power outage on a route they regularly drive, seems borderline nonsensical, but I honestly don't know if there is a plausible way to do it. | |
| ▲ | creato 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The one time I saw traffic lights go down, it was total chaos. There were two separate crashes that had already happened when I got there, and there would probably be >1 wreck per few minutes with the driving I observed. | | |
| ▲ | beAbU 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I moved from South Africa to Ireland 2 years ago. It was very noticeable to me how drivers in Ireland have no idea what to do when the lights are out. Absolute chaos! In south africa, traffic lights not working is a daily occurrence. And we've all learned how to navigate a dead intersection wit zero casualties. Massive 6 way intersections with 2-4 lanes per direction worked perfectly with everyone taking turns to go. |
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