could you list 3 things that you think are more important than the internet? (I know the internet is going to be fine; I just want to understand what you think ranks higher globally...)

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adastra22 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Mostly scientific stuff like astronomical observations — e.g. did this event observed at one telescope coincide with neutrinos detected at this other observatory.

Note I didn’t say they are more important than the Internet. That’s a value judgement in any case. I said that NIST level 0 NTp servers are more important to these use cases than they are to the Internet.

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misnome 2 days ago | parent [-]

All these use at least GPS for timing

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adastra22 2 days ago | parent [-]

No, they don’t. GPS is orders of magnitude less reliable than the most up to date metric time synchronization over fixed topology fiber links.

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misnome 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I wonder why we bothered building GPS signal waveguides into the bottom of a mine then. Clearly we should have consulted the experts of hacker news first.

Losing NTP for a day is going to affect fuck-all.

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AlotOfReading 2 days ago | parent [-]

I'm not even sure why you're trying to argue this. It's well established that Time over Fiber is 1-2 orders of magnitude more accurate and precise than GNSS time. Fiber time is also immune to many of the numerous sources of interference GNSS systems encounter, which anyone who's done serious timekeeping will be well acquainted with.

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misnome 2 days ago | parent [-]

Trying to argue that neutrino experiments use GPS time, because they do?

I’m sure synchronising all the worlds detectors over direct fiber links would… work, but, they aren’t.

Unless you are trying to argue internal synchronisation in which case, obviously, but that has absolutely zero to do with losing NTP for a day, the topic of conversation.

	▲	AlotOfReading a day ago \| parent [-]
		The deployments are still obviously limited, but this is something you can straight up buy if you're near a NIST facility [0]. I believe the longest existing link is NJ<->Chicago, which is used for HFT between the exchanges. [0] https://shop.nist.gov/ccrz__ProductDetails?sku=78200C

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CamperBob2 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I doubt that very much. GPS time integrity is a big deal in many very important applications -- not the least of which is GPS itself -- and is treated as such.

Yes, an individual fiber distribution system can be much more accurate than GNSS time, but availability is what actually matters. Five nines at USNO would get somebody fired.

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Izmaki 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The ability for humankind to communicate across the entire globe at nearly 1/4 of the speed of light has drastically accelerated our technological advancement. There is no doubt that the internet is a HUGE addition to society.

It's not super important when compared to basic needs like plumbing, food, electricity, medical assistance and other silly things we take for granted but are heavily dependent on. We all saw what happened to hospitals during the early stages of the COVID pandemic; we had plenty of internet and electricity but were struggling on the medical part. That was quite bad... I'm not sure if it's any worse if an entire country/continent lost access to the Internet. Quite a lot of our core infrastructure components in society rely on this. And a fair bit of it relies on a common understanding of what time "now" is.

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makeitdouble 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think it wont be affected by this but on the top of my head:

- GPS

- industrial complex that synchronize operations (we could include trains)

- telecoms in general (so a level higher than the internet)

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eichin 2 days ago | parent [-]

GPS uses the atomic clocks on the satellites though.

(Random search result from space force https://www.ssc.spaceforce.mil/Newsroom/Article/4039094/50-y... claims that cell phone tower-to-tower handoff uses GPS-mediated timing (only microsecond level though.)

	▲	CamperBob2 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		The satellite clocks are designed to run autonomously for a few days without noticeable degradation, and up to a few weeks with defined levels of inaccuracy, but they are normally adjusted once a day by the ground stations based on the timescale maintained by the USNO. That, in turn, uses an ensemble of H-masers.