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PurpleRamen 6 hours ago

> The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core.

They always did, everyone does. This is not really new, and not really that harmful in itself. The deeper problem is that you need developers who are also understanding what they are doing, what people want and need, developers who are nerdy about some topic and very deep into their understanding of it. But Mozilla seems to lack this, which is also why they have to follow every fad blindly, because they just don't know it better, have no real vision and understanding which enables them to build something really worthful. Mozilla seems to be the embodiment of what happens when you have a task and your solution is to just throw money at it until something works.

And let's be fair, it is easy to be good at something, but really hard to master it and dominate the world. It's not really their fault, they are probably doing their best, they just don't know it better, and so does everyone, including fans if we are honest. Everyone has their own preferences and goals, and often they are conflicting with each other. Mozilla has to find a common ground to server as much people as possible, and IMHO they are still good at this. Firefox used to be so much worse on some aspects, Chrome and other Browser are still worse on other aspects. Getting the perfect Browser is just not realistic.

> Give us more extensibility instead.

True, it's really a joke how many of their promised APIs never were finished after they killed XUL.

> Keep supporting v2 manifest and add more.

Didn't they say they will continue with Manifest v2?

> There were genuine technical reasons for why XUL and NPAPI had to die, but we need an equally powerful alternative.

Wasn't NPAPI mostly replaced with HTML5? Most stuff done with Flash or Java-Applets is now possible out of the box. Or is something missing?

ethbr1 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> [Mozilla always jumped on fads], everyone does.

If you read down in the thread, there's a good discussion about how this simply isn't true about Mozilla.

Of the fads Christophe Henry mentioned top of thread, Mozilla flat out didn't invest any resources in some of them, invested minimal resources in others (accepting donations in crypto), and modest resources in VR (which you'd expect given the browser-VR integration standards forming).

So the feeling about Mozilla being tech-ADHD comes more from folks reading their social media posts than the people who work there or watch the codebase.

tliltocatl 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Didn't they say they will continue with Manifest v2?

Yes and that's a good thing

> Wasn't NPAPI mostly replaced with HTML5?

It's true that what NPAPI was used for 99% of the time is better served by HTML5. But it's not like NPAPI was limited to Flash and applets. Afair NPAPI plugins can access all native resources (which is the reason why the security sucked so much), HTML5 obviously can't. E. g. runtime code generation isn't particularly usable in WASM, so no JIT other than browser JIT for you. Then there are stuff like WebUSB/WebNFC/WebSerial that Mozilla killed. Not that they didn't have good reasons to do so, but having a native-exposing plugin system (with some friction, don't just install anything with a click) would have covered most of the use cases without being that much of a privacy problem.

PurpleRamen 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> Then there are stuff like WebUSB/WebNFC/WebSerial that Mozilla killed.

Ah, true, Chrome has it, but Firefox not. Coincidental, some weeks ago I had to use this, worked well, and is another reason to always have an alternative browser around. Yes, Mozilla should work to at least fix that stuff.

tliltocatl 4 hours ago | parent [-]

AFAIR Mozilla is firmly against introducing new stuff that could be used for fingerprinting and that was their (and Apple's) rationale for not implementing it. That's a noble goal for sure, but peripheral access is a genuinely useful feature now that the Web had become the de-facto standard application platform. You don't like JS having access to everything - fine, but than we need some other way to do this (without porting everything to native).

ryandrake an hour ago | parent [-]

> now that the Web had become the de-facto standard application platform.

I feel like we can continue to resist this, although I admit it's getting more and more futile every year. It's like trying to hold back the tide. I personally don't want the web to be an application platform. The web is for browsing web pages. I have an application platform on my computer already.

close04 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> and not really that harmful in itself

Unless you can't afford the split focus. If Mozilla can do 1 thing right or 2 things half-assed, and it looks like this is the case, they should stop and focus on strengthening the core before hanging more stuff around it.

PurpleRamen 4 hours ago | parent [-]

They have enough money to split their focus, sugar daddy Google is providing it.

close04 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't mean it just in terms of money. We can see they don't have the ability to deliver on both fronts so maybe start with one, the more important core of the browser.