Remix.run Logo
strangattractor a day ago

Authors where paid to do the research and publish their work that produced the paper (that is what the grant was for). PLoS an Open Access publisher pays editors, type sets the work, finds a reviewer and publishes the work for free access on the internet. Reviewers are the ones that generally do not get paid for their work.

Elsevier makes over $3 billion dollars with the closed publication model. They force institutions to pay for bundles of journals they do not want. The Institutions often do not supply access to the general public despite the papers being produced with public money (and despite many of the Institutions being funded by public money).

Paying the cost upfront from the grant increases the availability to the public.

shevy-java a day ago | parent | next [-]

I think the Elsevier model will eventually be deprecated, at the least for the open sector of society (aka taxpayers money). People demand that when they pay taxes, they should not have to pay again due to Elsevier and I think this is a reasonable demand. Many researchers also support this.

forgotpwd16 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>PLoS [...]

At low costs of $2k~$3k per publication[0]. Elsevier closed-access journals will charge you $0 to publish your paper.

>Elsevier makes over $3 billion dollars with the closed publication model.

Elsevier is also[1] moving to APC for their journals because is better business.

>The Institutions often do not supply access to the general public despite the papers being produced with public money

Journals (usually) forbid you of sharing the published (supposedly edited) version of a paper. You're allowed to share the pre-published draft (see arXiv). Institutions could (and some indeed do) supply those drafts on their own.

>Paying the cost upfront from the grant increases the availability to the public.

At the expense of making research more expensive and hence more exclusive. It's money rather quality that matters now. Thus it isn't unsurprising that Frontiers & MDPI, two very known open-access proponent publishers, are also very known to publishing garbage. It's ironic that once was said that any journal asking you for money to publish your paper is predatory, yet nowadays somehow this is considered best practice.

[0]: https://plos.org/fees/ [1]: https://www.elsevier.com/open-access

strangattractor a day ago | parent | next [-]

Better busness or are their customers demanding it? PLoS is a Non-Profit - feel free to look up how much they make. I believe it is public record.

If researchers cannot pay the APC then PLoS often reduces the fee. Also - half of that grant money is used by the Institution as administrative overhead. An part of that overhead is paying Elsevier for journal access. If you want to decrease the cost of research that may be a better place to start.

I agree that volume often tends to result in garbage but the review is supposed to lessen that. Again that garbage did get funded some how.

I am not pushing PLoS - they are simply a publisher I am familiar with that uses this model.

strangattractor 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

One last post.

The garbage thing is really interesting. I'm going to propose another reason for garbage is Academia's reliance on publication as the primary means for giving promotions and judging peoples work. This leads to all kinds of disfunction.

Was it Nobel Prize Winner Peter Higgs that said his University wanted to fire him because he didn't publish frequently enough?

DamonHD a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Authors may NOT be paid at all for their work, or may even pay to do it.

I am a self-funded PhD student and no one paid me for the work that went into my open access paper. As it happens in this case the journal waived the publication fee, so no one paid anyone anything except I suppose the nominal pro-rata portion of my university fees that I paid.

strangattractor a day ago | parent [-]

That is true also. The pre-pub route may be your best bet if that is a concern. One shoe does not fit all feet. I am only trying to argue the merits of the Open Access model. It is certainly not perfect.

dfsegoat a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It seems that perhaps neither are inherently 'good models'? What would an ideal alternative look like?

strangattractor a day ago | parent | next [-]

It is certainly not perfect. Competition/Choice is good. It is interesting that people do not understand their grant money is paying for it regardless. Either an upfront cost or through the administrative overhead the Institution gets from the grant.

ajjahs a day ago | parent | prev [-]

non profit publisher or even better a goverment service.

bee_rider a day ago | parent [-]

Why was this comment flagged? There’s plenty of room to disagree with it, sure, but it isn’t offensive or repulsive or anything. If anything, I’d love to see it argued against…

Jtsummers 12 hours ago | parent [-]

It wasn't flagged, they're shadowbanned. [dead] without [flagged] is not the same as [flagged][dead]. [dead] alone is shadowbanned or maybe mod killed, [flagged][dead] means that it was flagged to death by users.

They (or someone) needs to message the mods about it, it looks like they've been shadowbanned since their first comment 6 months ago.

21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]