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| ▲ | stefanfisk 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| What is the calculus behind 40k? I just checked some Swedish vendors and here they calculate 12k for hardware and installation of a fairly large heat pump. https://www.polarpumpen.se/kunskapsbanken/varmepump-kunskaps... |
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| ▲ | willvarfar 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah small air-air pumps - which are the most common for single houses - are easily under 2000EUR including installation; if you keep eyes out for special offers it'd be about 1500EUR in Swedish prices. | |
| ▲ | lnsru 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | State subsidies and insane overregulation. Think about replacing the cabinet for electricity meters (+4000€) for heat pump installation. | | |
| ▲ | pjc50 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why is that required? Switch to three phase? Wasn't required for me in the UK. | | |
| ▲ | holowoodman 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | No. Everything in Germany has been three-phase since forever. But especially with old houses, with any "not insignificant change" to your electrical setup, you have to bring everything up to modern standards. Also, and connected with that, metering is weird in Germany. If your consumption rises above a certain amount (I think 10MWh for a single-family home) you are required to get a "smart meter", meaning a digital meter which includes the possibility (just the possibility, not actually the real thing) of online reporting and minute-by-minute pricing. In the rest of the world, that would just be swapping the meter or slapping some Wifi-to-IR-interface on it, but not so in Germany. You need to install a new metering cabinet that provides space for at least one digital meter (but better provide more than one...), one remote control receiver (for old-style night/day tariff switches, obsoleted by smart meters but still required nonetheless) and a smart meter gateway. That new metering cabinet needs to conform to standards set by your local electricity supplier (which can be as small as a city), so there is no nation-wide standards, more like 50 of them. And the metering cabinet is huge, not someting like the 30x40cm thing you see on sidewalks in spain or something, no. More like 200x140cm in the smallest(!) version. So those are really expensive just because the market is tiny and the requirements are completely crazy: Even though most smart meter gateways are wireless nowadays (UMTS or GSM) and usually such a gateway won't be installed anyways (because just the possibility of installing one is required), you also need to provide for cabled internet uplink to the metering cabinet. That uplink is a Cat6 cable to the gateway, but it crosses through the electrical uplink part of the cabinet. So the insulation of that cable has to be certified for at least 10kV insulation voltage, at least 80A current on the shielding and more stuff like that. So e.g. just that one stupid half-meter Cat6 cable will set you back 50Eur. Installation isn't any less crazy. You definitely cannot do anything yourself. Even your licensed electrician can only do the menial preparations. When your licensed electrician is done with the prep, you request an appointment with the local supplier's meter installer, who, after a typical wait time of 2 months, will install and seal the meter in the presence of your licensed electrician (who is there to receive complaints about incorrect prep, followed by another 2 months wait time for another appointment...). That's why it's 4kEur... And if you want your power to be a few cents cheaper (28ct/kWh instead of the usual 35ct/kWh), you need an extra meter for your heat pump. Have solar? Another extra meter. Want to charge your electrical car? You guessed right. And you cannot bring your own. Each of those "smart" meters has to be rented from your local supplier at around 20 to 120Eur/year. | | |
| ▲ | stefanfisk 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | OK, but what about the rest of the price difference? Once the electrical is taken care of it should just be a matter of replacing the furnace and pulling some tubes and wires to the outer unit? You said 40k, but the heat pump itself isn’t even 10k. | | |
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| ▲ | xeromal 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I installed mini splits (small heat pumps) in each of our rooms. Everyone gets their own temperature and they were only 800$ a piece. Did installation myself and it was pretty easy. Hardest thing was pulling a vacuum in the lines before releasing the freon (or whatever it's called) but all I did was watch a youtube video. They've been going strong for several years. I looked at the prices and they are still the same. |
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| ▲ | bratwurst3000 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Did the same. air air is cheap and works like a charm. this 40k for heatpump is for the most luxury version every salesmen trys to sell | | |
| ▲ | xeromal 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah if 40k is the go to amount of heat pumps, the entire country has lost the plot |
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| ▲ | pjc50 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The problem is the gas (a) emits CO2 and (b) comes from Russia. |
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| ▲ | Retric 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 40k for heat pumps is wildly overkill here if that’s what you where quoted someone is trying to scam you. More critically, those prices aren’t set in stone over the next 30 years. Home PV for example is way less than 0,3€/kWh and rather dramatically changes these comparisons. |
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| ▲ | vintermann 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | If we only could get China to do for heat pumps what they did for solar panels... | | |
| ▲ | Scoundreller 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’m filling my garage with cheap heat pumps and solar panels. Going to sell for 10x when the water wars commence. |
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| ▲ | worik 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > So why should I pay more by €30k to install experimental thing for a decade when my low cost gas heating will last for 3 decades again. Because: It is not experimental (it is no longer 1992) Your gas comes from Russia, and they hate you - roughly speaking Your prices are miles from reality Face it, fossil fuels are deprecated. Your gas heating will be unusable with no gas to put in it |
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| ▲ | jabl 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Germany is not really rich compared to nordics. (From another post I made in this thread) Looking at IMF 2025 GDP per capita figures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... ): Norway: $92k Denmark: $77k Sweden: $62k Germany: $60k UK: $57k Finland: $56k So yeah, Denmark and particularly Norway are a bit richer than the others, but the others are in the same ballpark. |