Can't think of a socialist country, but invite you to visit the German system. Significantly less costly for society and objectively better for the people falling ill (or just having a baby born).

And no, no lists, no lotteries or any of that other lies the conservative US media is spewing out to keep the masses pacified.

I strongly believe, that if US citizens were to experience German healthcare for a year and having to go back to the US system, that there would be riots. Because I don’t think anyone with first hand experience of both systems would ever want to return to the US system.

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MandieD 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yep, loving my gesetzliche Krankenkasse (public health insurance, which is more like "highly regulated insurance"), even more than I liked the Privatkrankenversicherung (less highly regulated, but still with better guardrails than a lot of things I've seen in the States) I was on my first decade in the system here. Sure, there are some specialists who won't accept it, or who will give you a sooner appointment if you're private pay, but in that situation, you have the option of declaring that you're a self-payer that quarter, and your public insurance will reimburse in the amount they normally would have for that procedure or exam. For things like an MRI, the full retail cost in Germany is still much lower than in the US (it was about 600 EUR for my back a few years ago, while I was still privately insured, and I still had to wait for reimbursment).

Even once I do hit the income threshold to switch back to private (switching back to fulltime work), I'm pretty sure I won't.

As far as doctor choice goes, I feel like I have more on the public insurance here (like 90% of the population) than I did with UHC in the early 2000's back in the US. I certainly have fewer financial surprises.

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Alex_L_Wood 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No lists? Have you ever actually lived in Germany and had to interact with its’ healthcare system?

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stinkbeetle 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Healthcare in the US seems to cost about double per capita what it does in other developed countries with universial/social healthcare. Public spending in US is on-par with others, and then private spending is that much again. Standard of healthcare I've heard (and would hope) is world class if you can pay, but still something seems broken there to be sure.

But you have lists, queues, lotteries, whatever you call it. That's not a lie. The fact you think lists are a vast right wing conspiracy demonstrates your government is not really forthcoming about your healthcare system. There are lists everywhere. There are ambulance wait times, hospital emergency wait times, various levels of urgent and elective treatment wait times. There are procedures and medicines and tests that are simply not covered at all.

Now, obviously USA has queues and lists too. And I could be wrong but I'm sure I've heard that US private insurance companies are notorious for not covering certain treatments and drugs as well. I don't know what it is exactly these right wing people are saying about healthcare, I thought they did not like the American "Obamacare" though.

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jack_tripper 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>And no, no lists

There definitely are lists. You don't just get the surgery or therapy you need the next day. You get the next free slot in the list of people queuing at the hospital/practice that still has free slots.

For example the first appointment you can get at my state funded therapist if you call today, will be in june. How is that "not a list"?

Or like, if you call most public GPs in my neighbourhood, they'll all tell you they're full and don't have slots to take on any new patients and you should "try somewhere else". How is that "not a list"?

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withinboredom 14 hours ago | parent [-]

There are multiple lists here in the NL. I called for a surgery and got put on the fast list (she said that if it weren’t urgent, it would be over a year wait). Your doc has a lot of influence on how urgent things are and how far you are willing to travel. I got in to see a therapist in a matter of weeks, because I was willing to travel out of the city; otherwise it will be months. The doc can see the lines and give you recommendations; all you have to do is ask to be seen sooner.

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jack_tripper 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Doesn't work like that in Austria. Or my doctor's were unwilling to fake urgency to bypass the waiting system for me.

Anyway, do you not realize the fault with the system in your logic? Because if everything becomes urgent in order to bypass queues, then nothing is urgent anymore.

It doesn't fix the problem, you're just scamming the system to get ahead of the problem.

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withinboredom 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In my case, there was no faking urgency. I was pointing out that urgency puts you in a different line that gets priority (basically, cancellations from the longer line).

For some other things, you can travel further away to where there is less demand for what you need, and if you're willing, you don't have to wait as long. These are all different "lines" and they're the ones doing the schedule.

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jack_tripper 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Ok but urgency is a different kettle of fish. Life threatening cases get urgency everywhere and immediate care everywhere.

Let's focus on the other part you said, "waiting 1 year" if it's not urgent. 1 year sucks no matter how you spin it around.

	▲	withinboredom 11 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I wish I could have waited one year. 0/10, would not recommend that proceedure. FWIW, it's a very common, usually also scheduled long in advance (even in the US). Pretty much every man has to get one over 40; so it makes sense the wait list is long unless you've got something else going on.
	▲	nobody9999 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		>Ok but urgency is a different kettle of fish. Life threatening cases get urgency everywhere and immediate care everywhere. Except it doesn't. At least not in the United States. I have Peripheral Artery Disease. I had two completely occluded arteries in my left leg and a third that was mostly occluded and had an aneurysm to boot. One day, that third artery collapsed and I was left with zero blood flow to my left foot. The doctor had me go to the Emergency Room to get testing and imaging to have surgery the following week. He did not simply schedule surgery, as that would have required pre-approval from my insurance company and, in fact, the insurance company denied the claim and did not approve the procedure (which saved my foot) until six weeks later -- at which time I'd have had to have my foot amputated without the angioplasty and arterial bypass. In fact, after surgery the insurance company continued to deny my claims and refused to authorize pain meds (they sliced my left leg open from my hip to my ankle and rooted around to use an existing vein to bypass the blockage on one of my arteries) for those same six weeks. Oh yeah, US healthcare is so much better. /rolls eyes. My insurer would have forced me to wait until I required amputation if I hadn't just gone ahead on an emergency basis as suggested (because it's not unusual for that to happen) by the surgeon. And in case you were wondering, yes I have private insurance and pay nearly $1200/month just for me. In fact, my deductible for next year just went up 20% and my annual out of pocket doubled, yet I'm still paying essentially the same premium. No. The US healthcare system is completely fucked and I hope you don't die or lose important body parts learning that.

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layer8 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t think the parent implied lying about urgency.

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jack_tripper 12 hours ago | parent [-]

How else do you interpret his statement: "Your doc has a lot of influence on how urgent things are"

If it's not lying then it's another word that ultimately still does the same outcome of putting you ahead of the rest.

	▲	withinboredom 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		They do? If they misdiagnose something, you can end up in the slow line instead of the fast one, or vice versa. Compared to them, you have no influence.