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gruez a day ago

[flagged]

mapontosevenths a day ago | parent | next [-]

> altering your stance on a given position to maximize donations you'd collect

Money exchanged to alter the conduct of a person in position of power... That sounds familiar. I wonder if there's a name for that?

"Bribe: money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe

venturecruelty a day ago | parent | next [-]

Don't you see, someone just has to say "this is not a bribe", and, like magic, they can finagle their way out of their corruption. "Bribery" has a very narrow definition, which conveniently doesn't apply to the corruption in question.

Incipient a day ago | parent | prev [-]

It's clearly not a bribe. The politicians change their judgement/conduct BEFORE the money is given or promised (in anticipation of) so it's fine.

..../s (you know, because what's serious these days is hard to tell)

Y'all in the US are so, so cactus haha.

eru a day ago | parent | next [-]

Well, perhaps that's more extortion than a bribe?

"Nice business you have there, would be a shame if I changed my conduct back again, wouldn't it?"

dylan604 a day ago | parent [-]

Does that work? Congress is so broken now that nothing happens. Sayings like “act of Congress” describing slow progress it would be simple for the lobbyist to just back another candidate to eliminate this “would be a shame” threat

gruez a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Y'all in the US are so, so cactus haha.

Are there any countries that don't use the quid pro quo definition of bribery? At best, they try to keep a lid on it by capping campaign contributions, but that's not really "bribery is illegal" (if we accept the more liberal definition), more like "there's a limit on how much you can bribe".

anjel a day ago | parent [-]

The Ottoman Empire kind of acknowledged the futility of trying to suppress corruption, opting instead to codify it and set thresholds for excessive abuse. Progressive for its day, it only partially succeeded since enforcement was no less prone to corrupt influence. As the romans famously said, “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” Literally: “Who will guard the guards themselves?”

fireflash38 13 hours ago | parent [-]

It's why the 3 branches of government worked so well for the US for so long. They each want to protect themselves, and are effectively at odds with each other unless there is almost universal agreement on something.

However that has completely fallen apart with a toothless Congress, and a executive branch that can stack the 3rd branch with similar minded idealogues.

impossiblefork 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't that pretty close to the actual position of your supreme court though?

BobbyTables2 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Whew!

Glad I haven’t been bribing mechanics that work on my car.

I only pay them after the work is done!

mlhpdx a day ago | parent [-]

To put it on your level, the mechanic works for you not us. Working for us involves a higher bar (or should).

Edit: typos

Buttons840 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are "bribes" and then there are "bribes as recognized by the law".

We all know bribes happen, but for the law to recognize a bribe as a bribe basically requires the two parties to have a signed and notorized legal document statating that they are knowingly entering into a quid pro quo, and that both parties are aware it's illegal to do so. Anything less than this, and it will never be prosecuted.

kevin_thibedeau a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lobbying involves quid-pro-quo: You pass the bill we wrote for ourselves and we give you a cushy consulting job when you leave Congress.

eru a day ago | parent [-]

As Matt Levine points out, the revolving door often works in more interesting ways.

If you are a bureaucrat, the way to maximise your next paycheck is often to be especially tough on companies (and on the margin push for more complicated rules that you can be an expert in). Simplified, the logic is "See how tough I am, you better give me a good paycheck to make sure I'm playing on your team."

The beauty is: the bureaucrats at the regulator don't even need to consciously think this way. They can be tough out of the ideological and conscientious conviction at the bottom of their heart, and the mechanism that gives them comparatively higher pay afterwards still works. Being tough also raises your profile, when you are but a junior or middling drone.

The logic you are describing might work, but only for the most senior appointees who already have a high profile.

pksebben 20 hours ago | parent [-]

the logic they describe does work. A lot. The Rollback of Dodd-Frank [0]. Recent malpractice reform (in the wrong direction) [1]. Drilling leases [2]. Asbestos. And so on and so on [3].

Tiger's in the house, y'all. And the roof is on fire. And the water is unavailable because it all got sold to nestle [4].

0 - https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/11/11/24397...

1 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/in-trump-era-lobbyi...

2 - https://www.cpr.org/show-segment/its-common-for-lobbyists-to...

3 - https://publicintegrity.org/politics/state-politics/copy-pas...

4 - https://kitoconnell.com/2016/09/27/nestle-spent-11m-lobbying...

z3phyr 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But anything more than 1 vote assigned for your usage is quid pro quo (since you will get to enjoy policies that you "paid" for) when others only get a single vote.