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mmooss a day ago

> They argue that SIM card regulation could help “disincentivise” online manipulation, and say their tool can be used to test policy interventions the world over.

Their solution is to deanonymize communication, which you're probably familiar with. That's not a tool for social good, but for government power. We could give government virtually any power, if we assume it will be used only for good.

What's a solution to online manipulation that is actually a social good or cannot be misused? What's a freedom-promoting technology that can replace the disaster that is current social media?

port11 a day ago | parent | next [-]

It's done little to nothing to stop phone-based scams in European countries. It's unbelievable how many calls and SMS we get with scams, supposedly for SIM cards that require ID (Belgium and France).

Seattle3503 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah I don't think we should expect cell networks to secure or protect these third parties.

dartharva a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

India is one of the countries widely known to be a hub for social media bots.

India has also always required buyers to submit their government IDs to buy SIM cards.

mmooss 10 hours ago | parent [-]

So how do they do it? Do all Internet connections require SIMs?

giancarlostoro a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've become a fan of Passkey instead of worrying about 2-factor, my phone or my Mac is how I authenticate with encryption keys only on my device.

richwater a day ago | parent [-]

Just wait until you lose your devices

giancarlostoro a day ago | parent [-]

all at once? I find that unlikely

rjdj377dhabsn a day ago | parent | next [-]

You don't travel? Easy to have all your devices stolen at once on the street.

Cthulhu_ a day ago | parent | next [-]

Backup codes somewhere safe. I mean if you're traveling and your bank cards or passport gets stolen you're similarly in trouble, but there's a contingency plan for those kinds of things.

rjdj377dhabsn a day ago | parent | next [-]

I thought the working group making the standard was threatening to blacklist any implementation that allows passkeys to be exported for backup, no?

19 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
TeMPOraL a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, but unlike with 2FA and SaaS, there's always some recourse. Worst case, you may need to physically visit some bank or government branch, send some registered letters and/or notarize some statements, but there's always a way to recover from losing your ID, passport, or access to a bank account.

Until similar process exist in digital space (read: is legally and culturally forced on SaaS vendors), 2FA is frankly dangerous - it demands standards of diligence and long-term care that not even government affairs do. The back-up codes users are instructed to print out and store securely? No other document in most people's lives requires such long-term protection.

giancarlostoro 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I can't say that I fly with everything valuable I have to my name, no. I leave my iPad and my Laptop at home usually, unless I am staying within my state visiting family and even then, I'm pretty sure my iCloud backup will still work on a brand new iPhone, heck I know it will, since it pushed everything to my newer iPhone even things I don't sync were in the encrypted backup of the whole device.

SV_BubbleTime a day ago | parent | prev [-]

No one has ever had a whole house disaster after all!

giancarlostoro 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure, but iCloud still has my entire phone encrypted and will backup restore to a new device, I would imagine my Passkey which is stored in the Passwords app regardless would be fine. Alternatively you can put Passkey in your Bitwarden vault as well.

0ckpuppet a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

or people could just start to realize that social media is junk food and stop eating it.

delis-thumbs-7e a day ago | parent | next [-]

>or people could just start to realize that [A] is [B] and stop [C] it.

Possible values for A = heroin, alcohol, tobacco, weed, porn, TV… B = addictive, causes cancer, has an effect on brain health, spreads HIV… C = using, consuming, eating, injecting…

Seems that this “people realizing” does not seem to work with other highly addictive chemicals or electronic media, since healing oneself from addiction requires far more than just “realizing” it is bad for you and the society. Perhaps there is a reason why we limit by law the sale of tobacco, drugs, alcohol and other highly addictive substances.

0ckpuppet a day ago | parent | next [-]

It doesn't have to work for everybody, just a critical mass that it doesn't rot the whole country. I can buy enough cigarettes,booze, and weed to run a party 24/7/365, so what are these "limits" you speak of? I don't party like that for the same reasons I quit eating taco kfc mcd's etc. They're still in business, but there will always be a few junkies.

delis-thumbs-7e 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can people considered underage, ie. children, buy these substances in your jurisdiction? Are there taxation, or limit when and where certain substances or media can he bought or consumed?

If you can sell guns and porn in kindergarten, well yes, you live in a very very ”liberal” society - one that is a dystopian hellhole, that is. Unless there is something very wrong with you, you do not want to live in such a society either. Therefore we have laws, regulations, social norms and taxation to limit unwanted behaviour as well as to protect those in the most precarious position. We all know for instance how mental illness affects likelyhood of addiction, or how such a simple thing as _pain_ made legions of people opioid addicts across the USA.

So no, it is not just few junkies that fail to realise.

scared_together a day ago | parent | prev [-]

In your jurisdiction, are there regulations and taxes on the sale of cigarettes and alcohol?

And are there any comparable regulations on social media?

rjdj377dhabsn a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Or we could start treating people like adults and let them make their own decisions/mistakes.

lynx97 a day ago | parent [-]

Progressives will never let that happen.

mmooss 10 hours ago | parent [-]

In fact progressives are much more oriented toward freedom than others. They just don't think the powerful need much assistance and instead focus on the freedom of LGBTQ people to make their own decisions about gender and sexuality, the freedom of racial minorities to do what everyone else does, the freedom and opportunity of undocumented, unhoused, and addicted people. Freedom is the heart of progressivism. (I don't subscribe to any group, but HN usually does not understand and mischaracterizes progressivism.)

mmooss 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have people stopped eating junk food yet?

cindyllm a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

msy a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We are in a situation where it's a choice between unchecked corporate/oligarchic power or government power, at least the latter is nominally accountable in a democracy.

chickensong a day ago | parent | next [-]

No, you can choose to opt-out and DIY your solution. It may not be for everyone, but oh well.

DFHippie a day ago | parent | prev [-]

And the unchecked corporate/oligarchic power is often just government power funneled through disposable, if rich, patsies.

neves a day ago | parent [-]

The unchecked oligarchy just buy the government.

DFHippie 18 hours ago | parent [-]

X controls Musk, not the other way around. Foreign influence campaigns control X. Thus governments buy the services of a rich patsy to control/destroy their opponents.

ivape 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We have to solve universal beauty somehow. People like to take part in beauty, so it isn’t fair to admonish it outright as pure vanity. If you stared at the most beautiful people all day what need do you have to survey the world like Quasimodo from the social media bell tower?

The Hunchback struggled with an apparent vacancy of physical beauty and the burden of exclusion. He constantly doom scrolled from the tower above looking down. The solution required everyone in town to have a literal fucking epiphany.