Remix.run Logo
varenc 9 hours ago

Interesting to learn you can identify the real country/area of origin using probe latency. Though could this be simulated? Like what if the VPN IP just added 100ms-300ms of latency to all of its outgoing traffic? Ideally vary the latency based on the requesting IP's location. And also just ignore typical probe requests like ICMP (ping). And ideally all the IPs near the end of the traceroute would do all this too.

To use an example, 74.118.126.204 claims to be a Somalian IP address, but ipinfo.io identifies it as being from London based on latency. Compare `curl ipinfo.io/74.118.126.204/json` vs `curl ipwhois.app/json/74.118.126.204` to see. If that IP ignored pings and added latency to all outgoing packets, I wonder if that would stymie ipinfo's ability to identify its true origin.

_ache_ an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This can fool someone from one location and only in one way (if you are near Somalia and expect a 10ms latency, a virtual VPN can't reduce latency to simulate been in Somalia). So it have to be dynamic to fool multiple locations to stay probable.

But anyway, *you can't fool the last-hop latency* (unless you control it, but you can control all of it), and basically it impossible to fool that.

____tom____ 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does this really work? I would think the ping time would not be dominated by speed of light, but by number of hops, and connection quality.

As a hypothetical example, an IP in a New York City data center is likely to have a shorted ping to a London data center, than a rural New York IP address.

rileymat2 7 hours ago | parent [-]

The speed of light sets a minimum bound even if you don't account for that, and these are coming up less than the minimum bound.

It also reminds me of this old story: https://web.mit.edu/jemorris/humor/500-miles

s0rce 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Would be even slower as the light will travel slower in the optical fiber and there will be time associated with each repeater as well.

fragmede 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That is a great one!

paranoidrobot 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Once you know the exit IP you can just find network(s) advertising it.

The VPN provider only controls their network, not their upstream.

So you can set minimum latency on your responses. But your upstream networks won't be doing this.

rplnt 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's possible to deduce password hashes by timing responses over the internet if the server isn't using constant time comparison. Noise is just that, a noise.

ignoramous 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It isn't just latency, but "triangulation".

  [IPinfo] pings an IP address from multiple servers across the world and identify the location of the IP address through a process called multilateration. Pinging an IP address from one server gives us one dimension of location information meaning that based on certain parameters the IP address could be in any place within a certain radius on the globe. Then as we ping that IP from our other servers, the location information becomes more precise. After enough pings, we have a very precise IP location information that almost reaches zip code level precision with a high degree of accuracy. Currently, we have more than 600 probe servers across the world and it is expanding.
u/reincoder, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37507355
justinsaccount 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not that simple.

If they added latency to all packets then London would still have the lowest latency.

debian3 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you ping it from UK and it ping >10ms then you know its there. And you are triangulating from multiple countries.

varenc 8 hours ago | parent [-]

You could vary the additional latency based on the location of the IP you're replying to? Or just hash the requesting IP and use that as a seed to generate that particular IP's random extra latency that always stays the same for that IP. Which feels like enough to make triangulation hard. Though I'm just spitballing.

deegles 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

with enough packets you can trilaterate an approximate locatuon. adding random jitter will just delay it a bit.

DANmode 8 hours ago | parent [-]

More than a bit!

oncallthrow 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you 300ms latency then yes, you defeat this detection mechanism.

paranoidrobot 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Only if the detection mechanism is looking at that single IP and from a single location.

Find the ASN(s) advertising that network and figure out their location.

Even within the ASN there may still be multiple hops, and those IPs may be owned by others (eg the hosting facility) who are not playing the same latency games.