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tonymet 3 days ago

Very true. And account integrity check pointing is stochastic and more aggressive so at any time there are people being locked out .

One of 20 of your services could lock you out tomorrow and that means you’re blocked from coworkers and family

ethbr1 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The root issue/risk is from cascading service dependencies, and I'm 99% sure this is done unintentionally at Apple et al.

Team builds service. Service depends on first party identity/authentication because it's easier.

... Fast forward 20 years, and no one at platform company even understands the dependency graph from a customer perspective anymore. Especially in the case of rare events like account locks.

Consequently, those customers face a sudden Kafkaesque maze of edge cases that don't line up, as the customer service processes people are funneled through are literally incapable of solving the problem.

Which means the entire "normal" customer support apparatus is unavailable to them. (The same apparatus companies aggressive shove all support through)

This is why there should be regulatory requirements for identity platforms mandating the ability to speak to a human who's empowered to fix your issue + an option for customer-choice decision arbitration + continuous random sample audits with penalties for falling below KPIs (timeliness, correctness, etc).

It should literally be illegal for a company to have their banning system 'oops' and then pretend they don't know you.

Because it's only going to get worse as more AI / probably correct methods infuse account security functions.

MichaelZuo 2 days ago | parent [-]

Honestly it seems like nobody under this entire post has actually fully read the TOS for any Apple service.

I have once for iCloud... and the impression I got was that they must think close to 100% of the population on Earth are potential scoundrels for them to put in so many clauses and escape hatches.

I don’t think it’s possible to fully read any modern TOS from a bigco and not get an inkling of that.

The real issue is why are people signing up to TOS they haven’t fully read, and if they have… why are they signing up for something that directly spells out they are possible scoundrels who need to be dominated.

It’s like some kind of mass self humilitation ritual.

totallymike 2 days ago | parent [-]

At Apple’s scale, the likelihood of someone pulling any weird or shady nonsense that can be imagined is not potential, it’s eventual.

nullfield 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Wasn’t them finally implementing competent (if overly annoying) iCloud MFA the result of this kind of thing, with social engineering/photo leaks from celebrities or something?

It takes a public scandal, and all.

MichaelZuo 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Even so, on the record subordinating yourself to a superior entity by definition… must turn the end user into an inferior.

A direct, on the record, formal agreement to be an inferior.

And then people wonder why they get humilitated and mistreated in complex edge cases.

IndianShitbombs 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

tonymet 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

So let me try to understand you. You have 200 friends on whatsapp and FB locks you out . Now you can start sending them letters ? And how do you get their number .

WhatsApp,WeChat , messenger , telegram all use private addressing

skydhash 3 days ago | parent [-]

You don't have 200 friends on WhatsApp. You have 200 contacts on your phone, which WA will pick up.

kube-system 3 days ago | parent [-]

Maybe you do. I have zero contacts synced with WhatsApp

rvnx 3 days ago | parent [-]

Reminds me of a story: When Facebook was launched I created an account.

Fast forward 10 years, account got permanently locked for suspicious activity.

Unsuccessful appeal. So permanently lost contact with some of my childhood friends and no way to recover them as they are in private mode.

If you hope on Instagram to find a girlfriend, it can also have a serious impact on your life to not have access to it. No instagram + no WhatsApp = paranoid weirdo = not dating material

alex1138 3 days ago | parent [-]

Facebook's actually the only company I've heard of that will ban you for inactivity. Gmail will delete addresses if you don't log in for a while though I think they probably scan for 'one and done' things, and not things that look like critical infrastructure, but that's just a guess

Seems very hand in hand with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15222240

See, this is why IT MATTERS when we have confirmed emails of Zuckerberg going "...dumb fucks". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1692122 You get all kinds of excuses https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38560321 Sounds good until you can't see any posts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14147719 or they lock you out of your contacts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4151433 Some people are just malicious and should be avoided at all costs and if their feet were held to the fire early they would've never been allowed to take over people's lives in the way they have. It matters.

tonymet 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I’m sorry but this sounds so preposterous that it’s making my point