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everforward 2 days ago

GPS is a bad example, but there are things that pose a physical threat to others that we maybe shouldn't tinker with. Like I think some modern cars are fly-by-wire, so you could stick the accelerator open and disable the breaks and steering. If it's also push-to-start, that's probably not physically connected to the ignition either.

It would be difficult to catch in an inspection if you could reprogram the OEM parts.

I don't care about closed-course cars, though. Do whatever you want to your track/drag car, but cars on the highway should probably have stock software for functional parts.

AnthonyMouse 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Like I think some modern cars are fly-by-wire, so you could stick the accelerator open and disable the breaks and steering.

Essentially all passenger cars use physical/hydraulic connections for the steering and brakes. The computer can activate the brakes, not disable the pedal from working.

But also, this argument is absurd. What if someone could reprogram your computer to make the brakes not work? They could also cut the brake lines or run you off the road. Which is why attempted murder is illegal and you don't need "programming a computer" to be illegal.

> It would be difficult to catch in an inspection if you could reprogram the OEM parts.

People already do this. There are also schmucks who make things like straight-through "catalytic converters" that internally bypass the catalyst for the main exhaust flow to improve performance while putting a mini-catalyst right in front of the oxygen sensor to fool the computer. You'd basically have to remove the catalytic converter and inspect the inside of it to catch them, or test the car on a dyno using an external exhaust probe, which are the same things that would catch someone reprogramming the computer.

In practice those people often don't get caught and the better solution is to go after the people selling those things rather than the people buying them anyway.

lelanthran a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> GPS is a bad example, but there are things that pose a physical threat to others that we maybe shouldn't tinker with. Like I think some modern cars are fly-by-wire, so you could stick the accelerator open and disable the breaks and steering. If it's also push-to-start, that's probably not physically connected to the ignition either.

I'm not seeing an argument here.

Cars have posed a physical threat to humans ever since they were invented, and yet the owners could do whatever the hell they wanted as long as the car still behaved legally when tested[1].

Aftermarket brakes (note spelling!), aftermarket steering wheels, aftermarket accelerator pedals (which can stick!), aftermarket suspensions - all legal. Aftermarket air filters, fuel injectors and pumps, exhausts - all legal. Hell, even additions, like forced induction (super/turbo chargers), cold air intake systems, lights, transmission coolers, etc are perfectly fine.

You just have to pass the tests, that's all.

I want to know why it is suddenly so important to remove the owners right to repair.

After all, it's only been quite recent that replacement aftermarket ECUs for engine control were made illegal under certain circumstances[2], and that's only a a few special jurisdictions.

What you are proposing is the automakers wet dream come true - they can effectively disable the car by bricking it after X years, and will legally prevent you from getting it running again even if you had the technical knowhow to do so!

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[1] Like with emissions. Or brakes (note spelling!)

[2] Reprogramming the existing one is still legal, though, you just have to ensure you pass the emissions test.

DaSHacka 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why does it matter if it's running stock software or not so long as it's still operational?

Oftentimes even the stock software can cause those problems you've mentioned, and has happened quite a few times in the past

saurik 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It would be difficult to catch in an inspection if you could reprogram the OEM parts.

This would be easy to inspect if the device were open.

codedokode a day ago | parent [-]

The simplest solution to prevent tampering is a seal.

fluoridation 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

>you could stick the accelerator open and disable the breaks and steering

This is silly. Prohibiting modifying car firmware because it would enable some methods of sabotage is like prohibiting making sledgehammers because someone might use one to bludgeon someone, when murder is already a crime to begin with.