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derektank 2 days ago

We’re contemplating jailing people for buying manufactured goods at the market price now?

stackskipton 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Yes? Reports are that OpenAI is buying unfinished memory kits which they have no capacity to complete. It appears that OpenAI is just buying them to remove them from the market and damage their competitors. In United States, that used to be considered against the law if we were actually enforcing such things.

m00x 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Since COVID, this has been the norm for any industry that requires chips.

Operation handbook now dictates that you should have 3-4 years of all the ICs you'll need for production so you don't end up like the car manufacturers.

ralphc an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The reason my 2018 Chevrolet has HDR radio and my wife's 2024 doesn't.

downrightmike a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Massively over inflating your vehicles to the point they can't move them in the market?

ikeashark 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I doubt this is to create artificial scarcity. Especially when OpenAI is the biggest player thought to be able to build AGI first and that it is now backed by the US & the Saudis.

ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent [-]

> thought to be able to build AGI first

Who still thinks this?

ikeashark 2 days ago | parent [-]

The US Government, Saudis, consumer/private investors apparently or at least the one that can build the most economically useful AI. I myself believe Google is most likely.

hodgehog11 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As always, it's the intent that matters.

For the sake of argument, what if Amazon decided tomorrow that they would secure exclusive contracts with all food suppliers and then hoard all the food to starve out the people they don't want to have it? Or at least, drive up the price of food so it becomes completely unaffordable? I know people can simply grow their own food so it's a bit different, but hopefully it gets the point across. It's anti-trust on an unprecedented level.

ikeashark 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

But OpenAI legitimately needs HBM. Amazon in this instance doesn't need food and is doing purely to create artificial scarcity. If OpenAI were to actually not use the HBM then it could mean something.

hodgehog11 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

That's the whole problem: it's unlikely that OpenAI will actually use all of that HBM. It seems probable that they are using it to create artificial scarcity for their competitors.

doctorwho42 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

"needs" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your argument...

back_to_basics 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"As always, it's the intent that matters."

That's certainly not a universal Legal Standard. If I'm harmed, but you didn't "intend" to harm me, does that nullify my Claim?

Hardly.

hodgehog11 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

IANAL, but yes, I believe it can nullify the claim. Bumping into someone on the sidewalk is only battery if the prosecution demonstrates intent to harm.

lovich 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lack of intent doesn’t mean your claim is nullified. “Intent matters” means it’s taken into account when deciding what damages were wrought

unethical_ban 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, degrees of murder, hate crimes.

squigz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> I know people can simply grow their own food

Small thing, but this is not simple or realistic at all. How does someone in an apartment grow enough food for their family?

hodgehog11 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah it would definitely still be a problem, but history shows that life finds a way. Even if everyone has to eat nothing but planted potatoes from any patch of grass that one can lay eyes on.

squigz a day ago | parent [-]

What history has taught us is that life finds a way by staying together and each person having their function within society, only some of which is growing or producing food.

kasabali 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They didn't buy "manufactured goods", they reserved 40% of the yearly wafer output for the whole world that haven't even been made yet for themselves.

BaconVonPork a day ago | parent [-]

Then if AI were the only consumer of wafers they would fall short of declaring themselves an illegal monopoly.

sh34r 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Sherman Antitrust Act has outlawed abuses of monopsony power since 1890.

What we should really be asking is, why did we ever stop jailing wanton criminals like Scam Alt-Man?

lenerdenator 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Simple: they create value for the right people. Namely, politicians who get their donations, and a generation that, despite not having enough children to grow the economy organically, doesn't want to work any... er... wants to retire.

Thus, they invest in retirement and pension funds, who in turn invest the money in businesses to earn a return. Since that return must increase constantly, and organic growth is no longer possible, you have to pull shenanigans as a businessman to meet the requirements of the shareholders, lest they kick you out of the plane with a golden parachute.

So we let them do those shenanigans and the politicians don't do anything about it.

andrekandre 2 days ago | parent [-]

  > they invest in retirement and pension funds, who in turn invest the money in businesses to earn a return
maybe not a popular opinion but, this is the original sin imo; putting retirement/pension on the market makes for so many perverse incentives to keep things growing at any cost...
drtgh 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The system is perverse per se,

you create money based on debt, and eternal growth, and devalue savings, and force people to bet in order to try to preserve savings value, then each ten or fifteen years you allow someones to harvest the rewards of the casino.

And when population start to decrease (on developed countries), you rise the alarm, "more population is needed due to the decline in the birth rate", promoting an eternal growth that would need the resources several planets if everyone had a decent standard of living.

morgan814 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Used to be someone had to crack the whip. Now the workers do it to themselves.

exasperaited 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I find it fascinating that he's had the benefit of the doubt for soooo long.

This is the shitcoin-for-your-eyeball-scans guy; the guy who didn't tell the board of his own company that he controlled their startup fund through an alias.

Analemma_ 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, and I actually think it's a symptom of advanced societal decay that you think this is somehow an unreasonable proposition.

What OpenAI is doing will drive up prices for years, shredding consumer welfare, limiting competition and forcing marginally-profitable products off the market, and they're not even going to use the RAM. They're wrecking supply chains simply because they no longer have any technical advantage now that Google and Anthropic have caught up and passed them, and have to resort to dirty tricks like this and digital heroin Sora to try and justify their valuation. No functioning society would or should allow you to get away with that.

Frankly, much worse things than jail should happen to Altman for this kind of torching of the commons, and jail is the watered-down compromise position.

exasperaited 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Frankly, much worse things than jail should happen to Altman for this kind of torching of the commons, and jail is the watered-down compromise position.

Some days I think the devastating crash of the economy that will come if the bubble bursts is the least worst outcome. Do people not feel like the tensions around AI will not soon become internationally geopolitical?

(It's already nationally geopolitical in the USA: Trump is trying to assert federal control over the states' rights to set their own legislation)

back_to_basics 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A gross mischaracterization, really.

1. Said "consumer" is effectively hoarding Supply, and thus distorting the Market. 2. Said "consumer" has no effective means to either Deploy nor Utilize said products as neither the Data Centers nor the Energy required to power them are in existence. 3. Said "consumer" has articulated his belief that the Taxpayer should "backstop" his endeavors in some capacity, as well.

If you don't find this offensive in the least and possibly criminal at worst, then I don't understand your thought process.

Dylan16807 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Didn't they sign some big contacts to lock in non-market prices?

heavyset_go 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

People go to prison for market manipulation all of the time.

exasperaited 2 days ago | parent [-]

went to prison.

In the USA, nobody need ever go to prison for market manipulation anymore; they simply have to be able to pay the price necessary for a pardon. No logical consistency applies to the process.