| ▲ | jorvi 2 days ago |
| There are two very simple causes to point to why touch keyboards turned to shit: 1. Crowdsourced word weighting: your keyboard's stochastic predictions are no longer mostly based on your typing, but rather on what 'everyone' is typing as their next word. This makes the word replacements it does often suboptimal to downright nonsensical. 2. Aggressive lookbehind correction: these days you have to be seriously on your guard for your keyboard to not sneak-edit something you typed 5 words back, because autocorrect suddenly decided that the probability is high you meant to say something else there (which it clearly isn't, as your eyes and brain exist) The problem your encountering is downstream from point 1. Basically your keyboard thinks due to the way most people construct a particular sentence, you're gonna want to type "bold" next, despite "hold" clearly clearly making more sense. So it'll force "b" on you 4 times in a row until it realizes you really want to type "h". Going back to the old style of doing keyboards (mostly user-learned dictionaries and probability weighting, and little lookbehind autocorrrect) could be done, but within Google and Apple there are probably people who got promoted by switching to the current shitty system. They'll block off any attempt at someone messing with their pride. (There is a third 'problem' where your visual keys do not correspond to the touchmap at all. Swiftkey has a feature where it can show you what your touchmap and heatmap look like versus the actual layout and it its often staggeringly different, with many keys vastly tilted. When you try to desperately type "h" after 4 misses, you're doing that with your index finger in "hunt and peck" mode, which does correspond to the visual layout but not with your usual typing on the touchmap layout. There is no way for your keyboard to know you're in "hunt and peck" accuracy mode.) |
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| ▲ | danudey 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| > The problem your encountering is downstream from point 1. Basically your keyboard thinks due to the way most people construct a particular sentence, you're gonna want to type "bold" next, despite "hold" clearly clearly making more sense. So it'll force "b" on you 4 times in a row until it realizes you really want to type "h". In the video, the user is typing 'Thumbs up', and when they get to the first 'u' the keyboard shows a 'u' being pressed but a 'j' is inserted instead. Are you suggesting that, due to the way most people construct sentences, the OS thinks that 'thjmbs' is the most likely word? And then the next time the OS thinks that 'thhmbs' is the most likely word? Both of the issues you've mentioned are common, and irritating, but if you watch the video you can see that that's not what's happening here. Before any autocorrection or adjustment is being done, the keyboard is registering a 'U' and the OS is inputting a J or H or I or some other nearby letter. The video also debunks the touchmap discontinuity issues as well, because you can clearly see which key the keyboard is registering; it's not assuming that you meant to press J or it would highlight the J; it's registering a U, highlighting U, and inputting J. It sounds to me as though you didn't watch the video and just assumed what issue was being discussed; please do watch it, because this is another, relatively new, issue that lots of people have seen and which is far worse and more frustrating than the other legitimate issues you mentioned. |
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| ▲ | WorldMaker 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > In the video, the user is typing 'Thumbs up', and when they get to the first 'u' the keyboard shows a 'u' being pressed but a 'j' is inserted instead. Are you suggesting that, due to the way most people construct sentences, the OS thinks that 'thjmbs' is the most likely word? And then the next time the OS thinks that 'thhmbs' is the most likely word? In addition to the other problems (the keyboard being too prone catching extremely subtle slides below UI response time), there certainly is the problem of when you crowd source enough data you crowd source all of their collective mistakes, too. In a lot of that raw data mistakes are going to be as common or more common than corrections and/or originally correct spellings. We do have a great filter for this called a "dictionary", but as the above commenter laments companies have given up on "just autocorrect to dictionary words" for much more complex "learning" models and filtering them back to just dictionary words is antithetical to the (sunken cost) expense that went into training these models, and/or the KPIs and promotion incentives that keep prioritizing "AI" and giant crowd sourced data vats over simpler mechanics and local user specifics. | | | |
| ▲ | mrguyorama 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The above commenter is talking about why touchscreen keyboards have become worse over time in general Apple additionally may have just bugged up their implementation as well, but the above mentioned issues exist even on Android, and didn't a decade ago. I still contend that the single best touchscreen keyboard and autocorrect implementation was the onscreen keyboard on the Microsoft Zune HD. A tiny tiny screen, and you could still type without looking and nearly always end up with the right text. It was magical, and creepy in retrospect. But nobody bought it so we had less good keyboards for a decade. Then companies insisted that they could throw "Algorithms" at the problem (which is what we had been doing for a decade but whatever) and make it magically better and now everyone gets worthless autocorrect because of the everpresent "Nobody is actually average so tuning your system to the average makes it bad for everybody" problem that has infected literally all "Data driven" product decisions. We literally had better text prediction using boring methods. We literally had working voice control on flip phones from the 90s. All on device too. | | |
| ▲ | walterbell 2 days ago | parent [-] | | We need a github repo with a list of past tech with good taste and poor market timing, for revaluation in newer markets. |
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| ▲ | robocat 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > it's registering a U, highlighting U, and inputting J The voiceover is deceptive (unintentionally?)... They touch the [u] which shows the popover U but you can see them slide their thumb down off the [u] key onto the [j] key. I guessed that was the issue, repeated it on my phone (SE) and only then looked at video and it's obvious when you see him do it in slo-mo. Edit: I have most prediction turned off (I mostly find slyde typing to be fastest, and I hate automiscorrect on uncommon words). iPhones are very very sensitive to tap-slides which causes many UI gremlins (a variety of terrible side effects that you can't avoid if you're designing a UI). Over time, most people seem to intuitively learn not to slide when tapping. I'm unsure how many designers/developers even notice the effects of slide since they have learnt to avoid sliding? When I watched beginners on iPhones you see them get frustrated by things not tapping and other subtle effects (HTML event interactions, scrollable areas, buttons, inputs). Same thing can happen on Android. One menu button repeatably failed if I used my left hand - took me a while to work out the issue (and a bit of work to increase the tappable area so a bit of slide was accepted and worked better for neophyte users). | | |
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| ▲ | takinola 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Aggressive lookbehind correction: these days you have to be seriously on your guard for your keyboard to not sneak-edit something you typed 5 words back If I ever meet the person that invented lookbehind correction, I’m not sure I’ll be able to restrain myself. This person has robbed me of my peace of mind as I now have to be on guard every time I type anything on a mobile keyboard |
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| ▲ | firefax 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | >If I ever meet the person that invented lookbehind correction, I’m not sure I’ll be able to restrain myself. your comment reminds me of this comic from the 2000s that became a bit of a meme back in the day swap out "comic sans" with "aggressive lookbehind correction" and it'd fit perfectly ;-) https://www.achewood.com/2007/07/05/title.html | |
| ▲ | foobarian 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | See this is why I turn off absolutely all autocorrection on iOS. I still make mistakes but now they are my mistakes. And I can type whatever I want without interference | | |
| ▲ | vintermann 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The importance of letting people make their own mistakes rather than yours, is what our culture is missing in all sorts of areas. | | | |
| ▲ | BeFlatXIII 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I type like a drunkard from the autocorrection on modern phones. | |
| ▲ | walterbell 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Can be disabled on multiple devices by Apple Configurator MDM XML plist file. | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wow I didn't realize that was possible. I just turned off all auto correction and predictive text. Working much better already. | | |
| ▲ | ethbr1 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Apple’s settings are an absolute dumpster fire from a discoverability perspective. |
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| ▲ | WorldMaker 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I keep switching it back on after having it off for a while. I want some autocorrect. I often like the type ahead suggestions. I just really hate the "update behind" mechanic. It's real frustrating that Apple has decided to put just about everything under only a single Settings switch and won't break it out into individual things. It's also frustrating that for about half an iOS version Apple seemed to have caught on that the update behind was catching people off guard and implemented an extra, more obvious change animation. The whole word flashed in a bright blue or yellow when it changed and had a visible undo button. That was useful. But then the button didn't survive the next point release and the animation kept getting subtler again until it disappeared. | |
| ▲ | happymellon 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Except that if you watched the video, you would see that this is not true. | |
| ▲ | moi2388 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I didn't even know this was possible. Thats great. |
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| ▲ | nneonneo 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 3. I stopped caring and learned to love the algorithm in 95% of normal typing. The result is that my typing speed is up but my accuracy has plummeted, yet my typing output is generally correct because of autocorrect. Unfortunately this falls apart when I try to type anything that isn’t common English words: names, code, rare words, etc. I also think that the keyboard could learn the different “rhythms” of typing - my normal typing which is fast and practically blind, and the careful hunt and peck which is much slower and intended for those out-of-distribution inputs. I bet the profile of the touch contacts (e.g. contact area and shape of the touches) for those two modes looks different too. |
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| ▲ | ASalazarMX 2 days ago | parent [-] | | My strategy for a time was disabling autocorrect and perfect my accuracy, but this was stumped because indeed, it's harder to type these days than when the screens were smaller and less precise, it seems to pick adyacent keys on a whim. So I realized I had exchanged correcting the same word four times in a row to correcting the same letter four times in a row. | | |
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| ▲ | Mattified 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This! I switched to SwiftKey some 8 years ago and no matter how many phones I change, logging into my SwiftKey account ensures my typing experience doesn't change almost at all. |
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| ▲ | coldtea a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I wouldn't send all my typing across all apps on a third party company. Even worrying they get to the mobile OS company it's already stretching it... | |
| ▲ | gausswho 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I was a SwiftKey fan over a decade ago, but wait... you have to log onto an account for it now? Sigh, phones need a 'dotfiles' revolution. | | |
| ▲ | WorldMaker 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's extra fun because the account it needs is a Microsoft Account because Microsoft acquihired SwiftKey for the lovely Windows Soft Keyboard in Windows Phone 7/8/10 and still accessible in Windows 11 even as form factors that make good use of it continue to disappear and people also don't learn that you can still switch it to "phone mode" for one hand swipe-typing because they don't have a device where they regularly need to type on a soft keyboard. The big reason after years of SwiftKey use I finally uninstalled it is because it became too much of an ad vector for "you should use Mobile Edge and have you tried our new Bing Mobile app yet". I also haven't used it in a couple of years, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't have some Copilot button or buttons somewhere now. | |
| ▲ | ethbr1 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s sad how we’re pining for a 1960s usability solution in 2025. The industry really does forget all the lessons it learned... |
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| ▲ | eviks 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > There is no way for your keyboard to know you're in "hunt and peck" accuracy mode But there is a way for your keyboard to simply show the real size/position of buttons so that in hunt and peck mode you'll be correct |
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| ▲ | coldtea a day ago | parent [-] | | >But there is a way for your keyboard to simply show the real size/position of buttons so that in hunt and peck mode you'll be correct Yes, but the tradeoff in that case is that for most casual typing it will be less forgiving and you'll make more (uncorrected) mistakes | | |
| ▲ | eviks a day ago | parent [-] | | Why would showing real button sizes make casual typing less forgiving? | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because that would correspond 1 to 1 with the actual visible letter boxes, and the whole system of catching events outside the "real button sizes" was developed to be more forgiving than "you have to click precisely in the box". My understanding is it's not just about including or not including some extra fixed clickable padding around each square (in which case it indeed wouldn't harm to show the whole area), but about dynamically adapting the area, based on frequent off-target clicks, probabilities, etc. |
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| ▲ | HumblyTossed 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I feel like when they introduced the neurological engine, they got away from the previous algorithm and it's just gone to shit since then. Apple being Apple, they John Force their way to victory by keeping their foot on the gas even when the wheels are spinning and the engine is smoking. |
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| ▲ | teaearlgraycold 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sometimes I think about how much harm has been done to the world just so a few people can get a vacation home on Lake Tahoe. Every increase in YouTube ads leading to millions of hours wasted - but hey that L7 got a sweet new lake house! |
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| ▲ | anyfoo 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > The problem your encountering is downstream from point 1. *you're |
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| ▲ | coldtea a day ago | parent [-] | | At this point we should make "your" serve dual duty as an official alt spelling of you're and be done with it... let context determine which "your" it is |
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