> I would hazard a guess that your knowledge lead to better prompts, better approach... heck even understanding how to build a status bar menu on Mac OS is slightly expert knowledge.

You're imagining that I'm giving Claude technical advice, but that is the point I'm trying to make: I am not.

This is what "vibe-coding" tries to specify.

I am only giving Claude UX feedback from using the app it makes. "Add a dropdown that lets me change the girth".

Now, I do have a natural taste for UX as a software user, and through that I can drive Claude to make a pretty good app. But my software engineering skills are not utilized... except for that one time I told Claude to use an AGDT because I fancy them.

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ModernMech 2 days ago | parent [-]

My mother wouldn't be able to do what you did. She wouldn't even know where to start despite using LLMs all the time. Half of my CS students wouldn't know where to start either. None of my freshman would. My grad students can do this but not all of them.

Your 20 years is assisting you in ways you don't know; you're so experienced you don't know what it means to be inexperienced anymore. Now, it's true you probably don't need 20 years to do what you did, but you need some experience. Its not that the task you posed to the LLM is trivial for everyone due to the LLM, its that its trivial for you because you have 20 years experience. For people with experience, the LLM makes moderate tasks trivial, hard tasks moderate, and impossible tasks technically doable.

For example, my MS students can vibe code a UI, but they can't vibe code a complete bytecode compiler. They can use AI to assist them, but it's not a trivial task at all, they will have to spend a lot of time on it, and if they don't have the background knowledge they will end up mired.

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hombre_fatal 2 days ago | parent [-]

The person at the top of the thread only made a claim about "non-experts".

Your mom wouldn't vibe-code software that she wants not because she's not a software engineer, but because she doesn't engage with software as a user at the level where she cares to do that.

Consider these two vibe-coded examples of waybar apps in r/omarchy where the OP admits he has zero software experience:

- Weather app: https://www.reddit.com/r/waybar/comments/1p6rv12/an_update_t...

- Activity monitor app: https://www.reddit.com/r/omarchy/comments/1p3hpfq/another_on...

That is a direct refutation of OP's claim. LLM enabled a non-expert to build something they couldn't before.

Unless you too think there exists a necessary expertise in coming up with these prompts:

- "I want a menubar app that shows me the current weather"

- "Now make it show weather in my current location"

- "Color the temperatures based on hot vs cold"

- "It's broken please find out why"

Is "menubar" too much expertise for you? I just asked claude "what is that bar at the top of my screen with all the icons" and it told me that it's macOS' menubar.

	▲	bopbopbop7 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Your best examples of non-experts are two Linux power users?
	▲	ModernMech 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I didn't make clear I was responding to your question: "Where do my 20 years of software dev experience fit into this except beyond imparting my aesthetic preferences?" Anyway, I think you kind of unintentionally proved my point. These two examples are pretty trivial as far as software goes, and it enabled someone with a little technical experience to implement them where before they couldn't have. They work well because: a) the full implementation for these apps don't even fill up the AI context window. It's easy to keep the LLM on task. b) it's a tutorial style-app that people often write as "babby's first UI widget", so there are thousands of examples of exactly this kind of thing online; therefore the LLM has little trouble summoning the correct code in its entirety. But still, someone with zero technical experience is going to be immediately thwarted by the prompts you provided. Take the first one "I want a menubar app that shows me the current weather". https://chatgpt.com/share/693b20ac-dcec-8001-8ca8-50c612b074... ChatGPT response: "Nice — here's a ready-to-run macOS menubar app you can drop into Xcode..." She's already out of her depth by word 11. You expect your mom to use Xcode? Mine certainly can't. Even I have trouble with Xcode and I use it for work. Almost every single word in that response would need to be explained to her, it might as well be a foreign language. Now, the LLM could help explain it to her, and that's what's great about them. But by the time she knows enough to actually find the original response actionable, she would have gained... knowledge and experience enough to operate it just to the level of writing that particular weather app. Though having done that, it's still unreasonable to now believe she could then use the LLM to write a bytecode compiler, because other people who have a Ph.D. in CS can. The LLM doesn't level the playing field, it's still lopsided toward the Ph.D.s / senior devs with 20 years exp.