North Korea may well win by simply waiting.

Don't flag me for this, i'm just playing devils advocate here. One of the main arguments i've heard against the narrative that the feminist movement freed women to do whatever they want is that instead they are now expected to work for a living. Many women want to have a career and don't want a family, so fine. But many that do find themselves unable to do so. The fact is that once only one member of the family had to go out to work now it's both. I know you can poke holes in that argument, but i feel it has some substance. Of course one comment can't cover any nuance, you would need a book for that. The article even touches onto this effect i described but fails to investigate it at all.

If you want women to raise families you can't also want them to have careers. You can probably draw a venn diagram of how those 2 things can overlap.

▲

nemomarx 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

In other countries women are more able to do both. You have to reckon with the wage decrease for mothers being especially high in south Korea at least?

▲

general1465 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It does not appears to be much better in North Korea either

https://news.sky.com/story/kim-jong-un-wipes-away-tears-as-h...

▲

beepbooptheory 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Why is this particularly a problem for women? Seems like this would apply to both genders?

▲

happytoexplain 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

This is distracting word-play. It's a problem for anybody wanting to have a child, including pairs of people. The parent's usage of the word "women" doesn't conflict with this unless you are a robot.

	▲	beepbooptheory 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		> One of the main arguments i've heard against the narrative that the feminist movement freed women to do whatever they want is that instead they are now expected to work for a living...I know you can poke holes in that argument, but i feel it has some substance.

▲

lan321 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Outside of the maternity leave issue there's a cultural issue with stay at home dads. I believe in essentially all countries, if the family isn't financially secure, it's assumed the dad's a bum, so leaving the financial situation to your better half feels like it can backfire.

Worded like this it sounds stupid but it's just one of those things..

▲

graemep 4 days ago | parent [-]

There used to be similar assumptions around women working - it was seen as neglecting their family. Culture can change.

	▲	lan321 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		Good point.

▲

echelon_musk 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Men can't have children.

▲

nemomarx 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

That really should only matter for the direct maternity leave and maybe some disruption at work during pregnancy. The years of child raising after that point is probably more important for this?

▲

FridayoLeary 4 days ago | parent [-]

By that stage most mothers have already formed emotional bonds to their children which can't easily (at all?) be replaced even by a father. Raising a child isn't some sort of equation, Marx.

	▲	graemep 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		So have paternity leave too so men can form those bonds.

▲

iamflimflam1 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Men can care for and raise children.

▲

delichon 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Which is a great backup, but they tend to be physically, psychologically and emotionally less suited to it. Most men are less motherly than most women. We are not blank slates.

▲

graemep 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Evidence?

Men are less "motherly" because we are discouraged by society from being that. Even your choice of words shows your prejudice.

I was my kids primary parent when married and a single dad after divorce. I am MUCH better suited to raising kids than my ex-wife was. That is largely a result of how I was raised to have empathy and care about people.

▲

delichon 4 days ago | parent [-]

> Even your choice of words shows your prejudice.

My implication that being motherly is good for a primary child raiser shows my prejudice? It's actually just a random phenomenon detached from fitness?

What's your opinion of apple pie?

	▲	sceptic123 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		To try to remove the word motherly there, your comment could be written as: Most men are worse parents than most women. Do you think that is a good representation of what you are saying? Do you think it's true? Are men inherently worse at parenting, or is there something else at play? And I would also like to know what your evidence is for that.

▲

FridayoLeary 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think we are coming close to some of the issues causing the current fertility crisis.

▲

bsowl 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Men and women play two different, complementary, and equally necessary roles when rearing children. Still, rearing children is more time-consuming for the woman than it is for the man.

	▲	pseudalopex 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		> Men and women play two different, complementary, and equally necessary roles when rearing children. Numerous studies and several meta analyses found no significant differences between children raised by 1 man and 1 woman, 2 men, or 2 women. Studies or interpretations which found differences made errors such as not controlling for divorce.[1] [1] https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equali...

▲

tombh 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Big if true