I agree. It’s just there has not been a pro-EU vote in any form or capacity by any EU population. So the stopped doing referendums but the EU grew only even more unpopular- and lately with VDL and KK, its as if its a cruel joke we all expect for it to end soon.

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betteryet 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

EU is holding, but the fact that every authoritarian (US, China, Russia) is trying to break it apart should tell you something. It's like the only one remaining, and they don't like it.

You may not agree, but VDL and KK have more balls than most men who have run the EU in recent history.

	▲	atmosx 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		If they had any, they would be in front line… not asking me to go get myself killed :-)

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wrxd 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So unpopular that the only country who ever decided to leave is now regretting its decision

	▲	atmosx 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		Just to make myself clear: I don’t think the UK made the right move. But if you ask most countries in referendums they will choose to leave. Ps. I know HN likes the EU very much because they see it as an opposing power to their home issues but it’s not that. The EU, in its current form, has many structural problems. That doesn’t mean that Europeans like Musk, Trump or Biden.

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victorbjorklund 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What are you talking about? Lots of countries have voted to join EU. Any country can leave when they want. EU is still popular in most countries.

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atmosx 3 days ago | parent [-]

Can you name a referendum of a country within the EU that has to do with the EU in some form or capacity and received a positive vote? Netherlands, France, Italy and Greece all voted at a certain point in time. The result was always a “no”.

The EU is not popular, within Europe, at all. Maybe the idea is great, but the implementation is certainly not.

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kazen44 3 days ago | parent [-]

what are you on about? this idea of a referendum is a straw man. Member states joined the EU through mechanisms of their state. (Acts of parlements, referendum or something else).

Also, the votes you are described are all about the implementation of certain ideas/legislation inside the context of the EU, not about the organisation itself?

	▲	atmosx 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		> what are you on about? I'm a European citizen, stating the obvious. Happens to be the contrary of what most ppl in here think it is. > Member states joined the EU through mechanisms of their state. (Acts of parlements, referendum or something else). They did. That was a long time ago. When the EU was created the expectation was to align salaries, social welfare networks through access to cheap lending through the common currency, even though politicians like Margaret Thatcher understood the role of the ECB the moment it was proposed. Indeed her last speech as a PM in the house of commons is legendary[^1]. > Also, the votes you are described are all about the implementation of certain ideas/legislation inside the context of the EU, not about the organisation itself? Most voters don't make that distinction. The fact that every time a government wants to implement an unpopular idea uses the EU as an excuse doesn't help ofc. To recap: given the opportunity, the majority of countries in Europe would choose to live the EU today, if you ask them. It was much easier for the UK to do so, because they were not part of the monetary union. [^1]: "[...] the point of that kind of Europe with a central bank is no democracy, taking powers away from every single Parliament, and having a single currency, a monetary policy and interest rates which take all political power away from us.", M. Thatcher, Excerpt from her last speeh as UK's PM (1990).