| ▲ | MLgulabio 3 days ago |
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| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| NYC has 8M people and 2M cars. Manhattan has like a 22% car ownership rate, and it's… not the poor people. https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-L... A parking spot will cost you more than rent in some other cities. |
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| ▲ | MLgulabio 3 days ago | parent [-] | | This doesn't change my argument at all. The more money you have, more you benefit from this ruling. Now you can buy a service which was not possible before. | | |
| ▲ | stetrain 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The rich were driving before, and are still driving. The difference is that now they are paying for that service they were already using, and those funds are going to public transit which serves the majority of New Yorkers especially those with lower incomes. | | |
| ▲ | CryptoBanker 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The problem is that no one in NYC, rich or poor, has any confidence in the MTA's ability to properly and efficiently use these funds. This stems from a long history of incompetence and wastefulness by the MTA | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > no one in NYC, rich or poor, has any confidence in the MTA's ability to properly and efficiently use these funds They're already using them, and the results show. They could have done it cheaper. But the LIRR is operating at Swiss rail efficiecies since the recent electrification and signalling improvements. | | |
| ▲ | CryptoBanker 3 days ago | parent [-] | | What electrification and signal improvements are you talking about? Signal upgrades are a constant thing in the MTA, both for the LIRR and the subways. They are not something that just started with congestion pricing funds. Also, efficiency was already on the upswing for the LIRR long before congestion pricing funds[1]. [1] https://www.mta.info/press-release/icymi-governor-hochul-cel... | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Congestion pricing was agreed to in 2019. Expected revenue was used to budget quite a few projects; this caused a bit of a scare when Hochul put it on hold for a while. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/16/nyregion/congestion-prici... | | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > They are not something that just started with congestion pricing funds Correct. But they’re being expanded. Early signs are there. And we have precedent to show that funding this work, and funding it sooner, works. > efficiency was already on the upswing for the LIRR long before congestion pricing funds Correct. Congestion funds accelerate that process. I spoke an inarticulately, but the point was trying to make is that we have precedence for quality and efficiency improving capital spending by the MTA. The bonds the MTA issued earlier this year double down on that. The early signs of that spending show those capital deployments are helping in the way the preceding spending did. |
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| ▲ | stetrain 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sounds like a great area to advocate for improvement. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are the funds actually going to public transit, or are they being used to pay off all the people whose support was needed to implement the congestion charges? | | |
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| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Now you can buy a service which was not possible before. It wasn't possible to drive a car in NYC before congestion pricing? I find that… unlikely. | | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > more money you have, more you benefit from this ruling This is nonsense. The poor of New York benefit from congestion pricing. It means more funding for the public transit they predominantly take. And for the minority who drive for a living it increases their revenues. The opposition to congestion charges comes from principally outside New York, often from folks who have little to no familiarity with it. | | |
| ▲ | MLgulabio 2 days ago | parent [-] | | As long as this system is a fixed price and is independent of the salary you earn, its benefits the rich more. Its the same principle with kindergarden and late fee; Without a late fee, people sometimes were late getting their kids, with late fees more people were late getting their kids. Now they were able to 'pay' for this. You now can pay for having less traffic for you. Who can afford this? The rich/richer person. This increases inequality. |
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| ▲ | acdha 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Because that’s not true. Cars are expensive compared to transit everywhere, but especially so in NYC. This was studied a lot before congestion pricing was implemented and only something like 2% of poor people were going to pay congestion charges. This did not stop a bunch of rich suburbanites from using them as a prop to demand that the city subsidize their lifestyle at the expense of NYC taxpayers, of course. https://www.cssny.org/news/entry/the-cost-of-killing-congest... |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > curious why no one is discussing this but this is basically a middle finger for poor people Because the poor don’t drive in New York, and to the extent they do, they likely qualify for an exemption. |
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| ▲ | magguzu 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You are assuming a car is required. The whole issue with car dependency is that it is a massive barrier for participating in society. Public transit is orders of magnitude cheaper, and very viable and often the better option in the New York area. |
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| ▲ | gWPVhyxPHqvk 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > and often the better option Even before congestion pricing this was the major factor. It's often quicker, more reliable, more pleasant, and has less variation in delays to ride the train/subway in NYC. Speaking from personal experience I could easily eat the congestion charge to daily commute into Manhattan, and I'd rather still take the train because I can do my mindless scrolling or read a book during that time. The only time I've found that a car is better is during the weekends with a group larger than about 4 people. The train schedules are terrible, the commute time isn't bad, and the price per ticket (assuming you're coming from the outer suburbs) vs parking and tolls works out to be a wash. |
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| ▲ | nemomarx 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't think poor people who lived in NYC were driving that often anyway? cars are expensive to begin with and parking is crazy in that part of the city |
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| ▲ | tantalor 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Concern trolling. |
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| ▲ | MLgulabio 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Whats concern trolling? This mechanism allows people with more money to enjoy driving in the city or is this congestion prcing based on your salary? no its not its based on the time in the city independent of what you make. A person with their high end car and miillions now can buy himself a nice little drive into the city while everyone else can't. | | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > A person with their high end car and miillions now can buy himself a nice little drive into the city while everyone else can't. This was already the case in NYC without congestion fees. (For example: https://nypost.com/2025/07/12/us-news/park-slope-parking-spo...) Now they get to fund public transit a little bit while they do so. | |
| ▲ | gWPVhyxPHqvk 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Do you seriously think that multi-millionaires drive to and from Manhattan to commute? Our C-suite and top quant traders at our firm take the train, bike, or walk to the office daily. I asked around my office - no one has ever driven regularly to our office in 20+ years. The reason why is because driving objectively sucks in the city. | | |
| ▲ | MLgulabio 2 days ago | parent [-] | | That all might be true, but this is still not the point i'm making: Either you can afford it, than it doesn't matter to you, or you can't afford it but have to pay it than it affects you. As long as the pricing is absolut and not relative to the owners salary, it is increase inequality. Poor could also mean the middle class is more affected than the rich class (whatever you call the class above middle). |
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| ▲ | saubeidl 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Maybe nobody should be driving a car in an urban core? Baby steps... |
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| ▲ | 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | ixtli 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| you clearly dont live here or you'd know that the poor of NYC are not the ones that own cars. they're the ones that take public transit. also, there are state benefits that offset congestion pricing and other fees for people who are poor |
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| ▲ | kccqzy 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And yes let’s think of the poor people who have no choice but to drive into Midtown and downtown for work. Have you ever talked to poor people in NYC? |
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| ▲ | rangestransform 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | the only poor people driving personal cars in manhattan are projects residents with their taxpayer-subsidized parking spot | |
| ▲ | MLgulabio 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | "poor" is relative. Ever thought about this? Should i said poorer people who still need a car to drive in NYC to make it more understandable to the hn crowed Oo?! | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > poorer people who still need a car to drive in NYC This does not exist. Parking in the congestion zone starts at $25 for an hour and regularly goes above $100 for an evening. | |
| ▲ | saubeidl 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Who needs a car in NYC? It's an expensive hobby and its time we stop letting drivers externalize their costs. | | |
| ▲ | MLgulabio 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm not discussing if someone should drive. My only point i'm making is, that this system increases inequality between financial richer people vs poorer ones. And thats because its an absolut fee and not a relative one. |
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| ▲ | OfficeChad 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
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