somebody said once we are mining "low-background tokens" like we are mining low-background (radiation) steel post WW2 and i couldnt shake the concept out of my head

(wrote up in https://www.latent.space/i/139368545/the-concept-of-low-back... - but ironically repeating something somebody else said online is kinda what i'm willingly participating in, and it's unclear why human-origin tokens should be that much higher signal than ai-origin ones)

▲ alansaber a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

Since synthetic data for training is pretty ubiquitous seems like a novelty

▲ mwidell 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Low background steel is no longer necessary.

"...began to fall in 1963, when the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty was enacted, and by 2008 it had decreased to only 0.005 mSv/yr above natural levels. This has made special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive uses, as new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel

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juvoly 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting. I guess that analogously, we might find that X years after some future AI content production ban, we could similarly start ignoring the low background token issue?

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actionfromafar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We used a rather low number of atmospheric bombs, while we are carpet bombing the internet every day with AI marketing copy.

	▲	MadnessASAP an hour ago \| parent [-]
		The eternal September has finally ended. We've now entered the AI winter. It promises to be long, dark, and full of annoyances.

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piker 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What’s the half-life of a viral meme?

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huflungdung 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

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doe88 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Can't wait, in fifty years we will have our data clean again.

▲ jrjfjgkrj 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

every human generation built upon the slop of the previous one

but we appreciated that, we called it "standing on the shoulders of giants"

▲ bigiain 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> we called it "standing on the shoulders of giants"

We do not see nearly so far though.

Because these days we are standing on the shoulders of giants that have been put into a blender and ground down into a slippery pink paste and levelled out to a statistically typical 7.3mm high layer of goo.

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_kb 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The secret is you then have to heat up that goo. When the temperature gets high enough things get interesting again.

	▲	pseidemann an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Just simulate some evolution here and there.
	▲	gilleain an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		You get Flubber?

▲ shevy-java 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This sounds like an Alan Kay quote. He meant that in regards to useful inventions. AI-generated spam just decreases the quality. We'd need a real alternative to this garbage from Google but all the other search engines are also bad. And their UI is also horrible - not as bad as Google, but also bad. Qwant just tries to copy/paste Google for instance (though interestingly enough, sometimes it has better results than Google - but also fewer in general, even ignornig false positive results).

▲ groestl 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We have two optimization mechanisms though which reduce noise with respect to their optimization functions: evolution and science. They are implicitly part of "standing on the shoulders of giants", you pick the giant to stand on (or it is picked for you).

Whether or not the optimization functions align with human survival, and thus our whole existence is not a slop, we're about to find out.

▲ ben_w 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's a reason this is comedy:

  Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands.

While this is religious:

  [24] “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. [26] And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. [27] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

Humans build not on each other's slop, but on each other's success.

Capitalism, freedom of expression, the marketplace of ideas, democracy: at their best these things are ways to bend the wisdom of the crowds (such as it is) to the benefit of all; and their failures are when crowds are not wise.

The "slop" of capitalism is polluted skies, soil and water, are wage slaves and fast fashion that barely lasts one use, and are the reason why workplace health and safety rules are written in blood. The "slop" of freedom of expression includes dishonest marketing, libel, slander, and propaganda. The "slop" of democracy is populists promising everything to everyone with no way to deliver it all. The "slop" of the marketplace of ideas is every idiot demanding their own un-informed rambling be given the same weight as the considered opinions of experts.

None of these things contributed our social, technological, or economic advancement, they are simply things which happened at the same time.

AI has stuff to contribute, but using it to make an endless feed of mediocrity is not it. The flood of low-effort GenAI stuff filling feeds and drowning signal with noise, as others have said: just give us your prompt.

▲ rebuilder 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's because the things we built on weren't slop

▲ pseidemann an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You may have one point.

The industrial age was built on dinosaur slop, and they were giant.

▲ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

▲ hoppp 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can't build on slop because slop is a slippery slope

	▲	cindyllm 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[dead]

▲ kgwgk 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nothing conveys better the idea of a solid foundation to build upon than the word ‘slop’.

▲ walrusted 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

the only structure you can build with slop is a burial mound

▲ teiferer 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Because the pyramids, the theory of general relativity and the Linux kernel are all totally comparable to ChatGPT output. /s

Why is anybody still surprised that the AI bubble made it that big?

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jrjfjgkrj 4 hours ago | parent [-]

for every theory of relativity the is the religious non-sense and superstitions of the medieval ages or today

	▲	JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> for every theory of relativity the is the religious non-sense and superstitions of the medieval ages or today If Einstein came up with relativity by standing on "the religious non-sense and superstitions of the medieval ages," you'd have a point.

▲ jeffchuber 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

that was me swyx

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rollulus 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Multiple people have coined the idea repeatedly, way before you. The oldest comment on HN I could find was in December 2022 by user spawarotti: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33856172

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threeducks 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Here is an even older comment chain about it from 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23895706

Apparently, comparing low-background steel to pre-LLM text is a rather obvious analogy.

	▲	pseidemann 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		As well as that people often do think alike. If you have a thought, it's likely it's not new.
	▲	rollulus 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Oh wow, great find! That’s really early days.