| ▲ | The mysterious black fungus from Chernobyl that may eat radiation(bbc.com) |
| 177 points by bookmtn 4 hours ago | 62 comments |
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| ▲ | mikkupikku 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time I read about this fungus. Let us grant the premise of a fungus somehow harnessing ionizing radiation using melanin; such a fungus could in principle be used to shield radioactive sources, but it won't "eat it up"; the radioactive isotopes emitting that radiation won't be disposed of in any way by the fungus. They don't eat those, and even if they did it wouldn't get rid of them, only incorporate them. Neither chemical nor any kind of biological process can make radioactive isotopes stop being radioactive, you need some sort of nuclear process to do that. The absolute best the fungus could do is bind up the radioactive isotopes to aid in their collection, but epoxy resins sprayed over the contaminated areas are far more effective than that could ever be. Also, making spacecraft shielding and even furniture out of this stuff? It's the stupidest thing I ever heard. The mass of the fungus doesn't come from ionizing radiation anymore than the mass of a plant comes from sunlight. You might as well claim that you're going to grow trees in space using the abundant sunlight. They power themselves with light but still need to be made out of something! Are they also hoping these fungus like to eat lunar regolith? It makes zero sense, but here we've got the BBC and apparently NASA taking the idea seriously. Where is the fucking biomass meant to come from?? I must be crazy, or they all are. |
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| ▲ | tonyarkles 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I mean... you're completely right and some of the stuff is as ridiculous as you're suggesting (e.g. the furniture). However... what we're agreeing on is that the fungus is absorbing alpha/beta particles and gamma rays that are coming off the radioactive material, which in theory should mean that it would act as a radiation shield. Whether it's a more effective radiation shield than other options is the big question, and for space travel in particular the question I'd want to know is how effective is a given mass of this fungus relative to other options (e.g. water). | |
| ▲ | wongarsu 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In regards of NASA taking it seriously, my null hypothesis would be that reporters misunderstand NASA just as much as everything else about fungi. If I understand the linked NASA press releases correctly, they are talking about using a mix of regolith, cyanobacteria and fungi as part of the outer shell of a habitat. The mycelian network of the fungi binds the loose regolith together, forming a strong and somewhat flexible material, with the fungus working a bit like the cement in a concrete mix. And because fungi don't form from nothing you add cyanobacteria that create "fungus food" (presumably some sugar) from water and CO2 (I'm sure you need to add a bit more than that, but that might be beyond the scope of a press release) This really has nothing to do with radiation-absorbing fungi at all, except for one remark how the melanin in radiation-eating fungi could provide further shielding. | |
| ▲ | VladVladikoff 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >the radioactive isotopes emitting that radiation won't be disposed of in any way by the fungus. They don't eat those, and even if they did it wouldn't get rid of them Please excuse the novice question but I am confused, where does the energy come from then? | | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Granting the premise, the fungus gets energy (but not mass) from the natural decay of radioactive particles. It doesn't accelerate that decay, the decay happens at the same pace it would have without the fungus. Just like planting more plants doesn't make the sun burn out any faster. The fungus itself is made of carbon and all the other usual stuff life is made from. | | |
| ▲ | dr_dshiv 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What if the fungus accumulated radioactive particles in vesicles? Might they create chained reactions and thus deplete the radioactivity faster than spatially separated particles? Might that be plausible? | | |
| ▲ | tgv a few seconds ago | parent [-] | | A chain reaction requires several kilograms, densely packed, if I'm not mistaken. So that's already a tall order for a fungus. But the radio-active material stays in place. These fungi absorb the radiation. |
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| ▲ | lazide 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Something the fungus COULD do (in a hypothetical world) is concentrate radioisotopes along with some moderator to accelerate the fission process and harvest more energy. Would probably require a lot more time than it would have, however, considering the relatively low amounts of radioisotopes in todays world (due to the halflife of most of them, and the age of our planet). Several billion years ago it could have been a thing though! | | |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | But if it concentrates isotopes to accellerate fission, wouldn't that cause the material to heat up and, ultimately, kill the fungus? Depends on rate of concentration of course, if it just grabs the odd airborne isotope (if that's a thing) then maybe. | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe in principle, but neutron radiation from fallout/etc is relatively minimal and you really just have to wait out the decay of those isotopes. The good news is radiation detectors are insanely sensitive so you can map where the hotspots are and mitigate much of the risk using exclusion zones and / or various cleanup techniques to collect the radioactive material so it can be safety stored. | | |
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| ▲ | infinet 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The article talks about fungi been attracted to ionising radiation. Per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation Ionizing (also spelled ionising) radiation is particle or photon that has enough energy to detaching electron from atoms or molecules. So it includes all the usual high energy radiations such as Gamma, X-rays, high energy UV, alpha, beta, neutron et al. |
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| ▲ | _young_grug_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This would be a cool origin story for astrophage (from Project Hail Mary, a fun & light sci fi read by the Martian guy) |
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| ▲ | api an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Also this is how the protomolecile from The Expanse feeds. It can absorb pretty much any radiation across the whole spectrum. | |
| ▲ | kakacik 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There is a movie coming with Ryan Gosling, I sure hope they keep the spirit of the book and don't turn that into some bizarre hollywoodish cash grab | | |
| ▲ | mikea1 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think the Martian was adapted well from book to movie, so I have hope for this one. That said, compressing the entire story into a theatre runtime is tricky: I think it would be a win if only half of the character and relationship growth of the two ship bound protagonists comes through in the adaptation (because it was sooo good in the book!) |
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| ▲ | mrweasel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wonder if you could power something of this? If the fungus have some type of melanin that will turn ionized radiation into energy, could we then use that to power something of background radiation? Also interesting to see how close this fungi will grow to the radiation source, or will it be able to mutate to completely envelop the radiation source. |
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| ▲ | dodslaser 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Just dry the fungus and burn it. The process is fairly analogous to photosynthesis in plants, so we've basically already been doing this since we learned to make fire, just with a different source of radiation. | | |
| ▲ | mrweasel 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That would be fun on a space craft. Steam power spacecraft, powered by burning mushrooms. | | |
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| ▲ | VladVladikoff 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I had the same thought, I wonder if we could make better solar cells? |
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| ▲ | lisbbb 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm skeptical just because I know someone who has been working on the problem of radioactivity for like 30 years and they have left no stone unturned in that undertaking. |
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| ▲ | HelloUsername 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Related: "Fungus in Chernobyl nuclear disaster zone has mutated to 'feed' on radiation (2024)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45901149 12-nov-2025 "Fungus found in Chernobyl might process radiation and act as a shield (2024)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43534021 31-mar-2025 "A Black Fungus Might Be Healing Chernobyl by Drinking Radiation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43148355 23-feb-2025 "Radiotrophic fungus" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41085406 03-aug-2024 "Chernobyl fungus could shield astronauts from cosmic radiation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35181146 16-mar-2023 "Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24166994 15-aug-2020 "Radiotrophic fungus" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20342750 03-jul-2019 "Chernobyl Fungus Feeds On Radiation (2007)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6763520 19-nov-2013 "Black Fungus Found in Chernobyl Eats Harmful Radiation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=127626 02-mar-2008 |
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| ▲ | reliablereason 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I did some basic calculations to compare the energy in the radiation vs the energy required to grow 10% extra. - If we assume they are working in the reactor we get radiation levels of something like 1 mGy/hour. But we can prop this up to mabye 500 mGy/hour since i dont know how they grew their culture - That leads to 0.05 J of extra energy per gram of microbial bio material. - Energy needed to grow 1g of microbial biomaterial ≈ 3.15 kJ
10% of that is 315 J per gram The result is that: The amount of radiation energy available is 4 orders of magnitude too small
to power even a 10% growth boost. Edit: updated with more accurate estimations. |
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| ▲ | once_inc 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Add in some evolutionary strategies, and you have the recipe for a good sci-fi book: a fungus in Chernobyl rapidly outpaces its competitors due to its ability to absorb radiation. Each iteration grows and reproduces faster, until it is so blindingingly fast that it begins to outpace the output the fuel rods produce. The world rejoices as this fungus is perfect for cleaning up nuclear waste products, until we realize that it evolved to function outside of Chernobyl and begins to eat everything it can reach. Mankind launches into a desperate struggle for survival as the fungus lays waste to large swathes of land. | | |
| ▲ | gus_massa 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | They don't eat the radioactive material and make it not radioactive. [Assuming they use the radiation to get energy [1].] They just wait patiently until the radioactive atoms decay and emit radiation, like a gamma ray, and then absorb the gamma ray and use the energy. The half life of the radioactive material does not change. [1] I still doubt this claim, but let's go along assuming the best case. | |
| ▲ | wartywhoa23 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A variation on the Gray Goo scenario. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo | | | |
| ▲ | Andrex 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This lines up with a book idea I've had for like 20 years. Crazy! Don't wait to write sci-fi I suppose! Life may catch up, haha. | | |
| ▲ | robocat an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm trying to work out how the fungus evolves to grow its food source by causing radioactivity increase? It can concentrate radionuclides, but the step function after inducing some criticality is likely to cause reproductive difficulty (stopping fungus evolution). Plus: heavy metals combined with organics have a tendency towards being nasty poisonous | |
| ▲ | rrr_oh_man an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Idea is nothing, execution is everything. Just write it if you want to. | | |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ an hour ago | parent [-] | | I had a similar thought, ideas are cheap. Loads of people are like "I have this GREAT idea for an app, I just need a developer to build it!"... as if the idea on its own has value. Unfortunately and / or fortunately thanks to AI tech, anyone with an idea can now throw it at an AI and see it materialise. |
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| ▲ | khuey 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Some similar concepts are found in The Expanse for those who have not read/seen it. | |
| ▲ | xattt 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Its only regret… not developing resistance to polyene antifungals. | |
| ▲ | Joel_Mckay 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Some fungi are already the largest organisms on earth at >200 km^2 Armillaria ostoyae ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillaria_ostoyae ) Consider when organisms must pass, that these ancient fungi likely still consume the host... Thus, on a 8000 year timescale most fungi doesn't necessarily need to pursue food that naturally dies in around a century. Yeasts are already sharing your body along with numerous other organisms that are often harmless or even beneficial. Best not think about it too much if you are uncomfortable with seeing yourself as a mini ecosystem. =3 | | |
| ▲ | robocat 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Explainer: Armillaria ostoyae first parisitises trees and after they die (or are killed) then it shifts to a saprophytic mode to decompose the tree. My summary after wondering why you chose the word "consume". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillaria_ostoyae rivals the aspen grove "Pando" as the known organism with the highest living biomass and perhaps rivalled by a colony of Posidonia australis on the Australian seabed that measures 200 square kilometres (edited)
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| ▲ | throwawaymaths 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Aside from the Chernobyl part, that's basically Andromeda strain |
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| ▲ | kalaksi 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm not sure where you're going with this, but since they have actually researched how it grows, I think it's more likely your calculations/assumptions are incomplete. For example: > Energy needed to grow 1g of microbial biomaterial based on what? Edit: Maybe you meant that radiation alone wouldn't be enough for that growth, so there'd be other components that it's helping with. | | |
| ▲ | reliablereason 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Initially i asked a AI for standard values but here is a proper source: - Negentropy concept revisited: Standard thermodynamic properties of 16 bacteria, fungi and algae species ( https://arxiv.org/abs/1901.00494) > Maybe you meant that radiation alone wouldn't be enough for that growth, so there'd be other components that it's helping with. Yes. Clearly it grew as it grew, but the question is what drove/powered the growth. | | |
| ▲ | i_cannot_hack an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > Initially i asked a AI for standard values Don't do this, and don't then share the resulting numbers as fact publicly without disclosing you just asked a chatbot to make up something reasonable sounding. If the chatbot refers to a source, read the source yourself and confirm it didn't make it up. If the chatbot did not refer to a source, you cannot be sure it didn't make something up. The property measured in the source you linked, "enthalpy of formation", is not the same as the energy required to grow 1g of biomatter. One clue of this is that the number in the paper is negative, which would be very strange in the context you requested (but not in the context of the paper). For the curious: "A negative enthalpy of formation indicates that a compound is more stable than its constituent elements, as the process of forming it from the elements releases energy" You're feeding yourself (and others) potentially inaccurate information due to overconfidence in the abilities of LLMs. | |
| ▲ | lionkor 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | General rule of thumb: If you're going to ask an LLM and then make a post based on that, simply don't post it. If we wanted a randomly generated take on this, we would just ask an LLM ourselves. |
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| ▲ | Retric 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > That leads to 0.05 J of extra energy per gram of microbial bio material Over what timeframe? If that’s 0.05 J per hour and “the researchers found that fungi that faced the galactic cosmic radiation for 26 days grew an average 1.21 times faster” 26 * 25 / 21% and the numbers don’t look that unreasonable. | | |
| ▲ | reliablereason 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I calculated over 5 days. Which was just a guess. But i focused on the 10% mentioned. That said time could be factored out if you did everything properly. |
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| ▲ | credit_guy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I also did some back of the envelope calculations. Here's what I got: the radiation level just 1 meter away from the "elephant foot" (the solidified molten core), at the time of the accident was about 1000 times lower than the solar irradiation. At 100 meters it was 10 million times lower (because of the inverse square law). Now, the radiation from the elephant foot has decreased significantly. I couldn't find a recent estimate, but I would expect it to be at least 100 times lower. So at 100 meters from the elephant foot, the radiation level is a billion times lower than what you get from the sun. There's no way any organism can "feed" on that. | | |
| ▲ | Retric 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Here's what I got: the radiation level just 1 meter away from the "elephant foot" (the solidified molten core), at the time of the accident was about 1000 times lower than the solar irradiation. At 100 meters it was 10 million times lower (because of the inverse square law). No, the elephants foot isn’t a point source at its surface. To use an extreme example going from 1m away from the sun to 100m away from the sun doesn’t result in a 10,000x drop off in energy density. Instead the exponential drop-off occurs relative to the center of the sun because energy is coming from any point on the surface visible to that location. A similar principle applies with the elephants foot, though the geometry is more complicated. |
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| ▲ | engine_y 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's another parameter worth considering - how efficient is it to convert sunlight vs. gamma radiation into biologically usable energy. What if for some reason gamma radiation changes the equilibrium constants for ADP --> ATP? | | |
| ▲ | aeonik 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Another hypothesis to test would be if the radiation is being used as a catalyst somehow. E.g. Could be denaturing something else, unlocking a previously inaccessible energy source. Possibly some radiochemistry creating a new food source for the fungus too. |
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| ▲ | vintermann 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah, from that it sounds like the main advantage of this mold is that it gets some compensation from all that deadly radiation, and thus does better than mold which doesn't. | |
| ▲ | PatronBernard 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sources dude... |
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| ▲ | Tarmo362 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is a pretty interesting wikipedia page dedicated to these type of fungi if someone wants a read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus |
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| ▲ | neom 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Interesting that it uses melanin to survive, I wonder if studying it in the context of vitiligo would reveal anything given vitiligo is not well understood generally. |
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| ▲ | einpoklum 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I was immediately reminded of Hayao Miyazaki's post-apocalyptic manga and anime film, "Nausicaa of the valley of the winds", where the fungus-and-spore-filled jungle, toxic and lethal to humans, actually serves as a sequestering and purification agent for the ecosystems affected by some apocalyptic, possibly nuclear, catastrophe. http://www.nausicaa.net/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_... https://ghibli.fandom.com/wiki/Nausicaä_of_the_Valley_of_the... |
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| ▲ | jansan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Zhdanova suspected that the melanin of these fungi was acting as a shield against ionising radiation. Wouldn't that be very easy to measure? My guts tell me that using the melanin as a shield against gamma radiation has a negligible effect, if any at all. |
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| ▲ | londons_explore 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are assuming a molecule good at shielding against UV light is probably a poor shield against gamma rays, many orders of magnitude shorter wavelength. That sounds probable ... But how about the theory that systems to clean up smashed up proteins from UV light is also good to clean up smashed up proteins from gamma radiation? And one of the parts of that system, or upregulated with that system, is melanin. |
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| ▲ | firesteelrain 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How do you eat something you can’t see? It’s like eating electricity |
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| ▲ | nkrisc 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Or sunlight. | |
| ▲ | mrweasel 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | ... I mean, blind people exits. They can't see their food either, but I get where you're going: eating something with no mass. |
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| ▲ | deadbabe 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Imagine if this fungus and its radiation eating abilities was the key to interstellar travel. |