| ▲ | ginko 5 hours ago |
| >That relationship we have with cats now only gets started about 3.5 or 4,000 years ago, rather than 10,000 years ago. I wouldn't have thought cats were domesticated 10,000 years ago, why is it implied that's a general assumption? |
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| ▲ | ggm 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Because other animals appear to have been domesticated 10ky ago. It's hard to argue a good mouser is not useful to a primitive agrarian society. Which emerged before 4.5ky ago. |
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| ▲ | dmurray 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A John Deere tractor would be useful to a primitive agrarian society, but they didn't have one of those either. We have plenty of evidence for domesticated cats 4,000 years ago in Ancient Egypt. We have no evidence for cats in earlier civilizations, so any assumption that they had them was a lazy guess - granted that we have fewer surviving artifacts from those eras anyway. It's hard to prove a negative, but the recent discoveries seem to demonstrate that cats were in the middle of being domesticated in ancient Egypt. It doesn't completely rule out a line of domesticated cats in the Levant that since died out. | | |
| ▲ | MangoToupe 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > We have plenty of evidence for domesticated cats 4,000 years ago in Ancient Egypt. We have plenty of evidence for cats being around humans 4,000 years ago—domestication is another topic entirely. Even now you can find big cats living alongside humans clearly without domestication. |
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| ▲ | MangoToupe 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think a better word than "useful" in the context of cats is "tolerated". The self-domestication hypothesis ala dogs makes a lot more sense than the active domestication of livestock. |
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| ▲ | tokai 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Because of https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1095335 |
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| ▲ | toddmerrill 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I agree. I would guess that "most people" would think that cats were domesticated in Egypt because of their cat worship - as the article mentions. Turns out we the people were right. From the article's perspective "most people" apparently means "most scientists". |
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| ▲ | wongarsu 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I would guess that "most people" would think that cats were domesticated in Egypt because of their cat worship Egyption cat worship is about on par with cat worship on the internet ca. 2005-2015. And most people on the internet don't even have grain stores that benefit from the protection of a cat. I certainly wouldn't have drawn a connection between "Ancient Egypt is long ago and they worshiped cats, thus they domesticated cats" | |
| ▲ | Amezarak 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is often the case. In the absence of clear, overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I find it best to accept what ancient writers say. In this case, Herodotus wrote about cats in Egypt and clearly thought them a fascinating novelty. If a well-traveled Greek from Halicarnassus thought that cats required several paragraphs of description and were something he specially associated with Egypt, it would seem pretty likely that a) cat domestication occurred in Egypt based on his full description and b) domesticated cats did not spread out of Egypt until quite late. This happens again and again because nobody can make a career out of saying "yes, Herodotus/Thucydides/Polybius/etc were right." Well, at least not until many other people spend their careers writing about how they were wrong. One fascinating passage in Herodotus's description mentions that cats were attracted to fire and would sometimes run into them and die. My edition describes this in a footnote as a ludicrous embellishment. I agreed...until I dated a girl who told me (unprompted, never having heard this) how her pet cat had done exactly this. |
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| ▲ | singularity2001 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Because there were cat burials at this time and they must've been very helpful for domesticated societies to get rid of vermin |
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| ▲ | scotty79 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 10k was roughly invention of agriculture and cats are super useful for rodent control so there were many attempts to domesticate them since then in various parts of the world. They failed sooner or later because almost all cat species are not really consistently friendly towards humans. Modern cats come from 4k years ago when people finally found the species of wild cat that behaved pretty much domesticated already and just dispersed it around the world. |
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| ▲ | karmakurtisaani 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Also, I'm pretty sure cats were domesticated way before 3.5 years ago. I think it was even as far back as, hmm, over 80 years ago. Edit: you are correct to downvote me, it was not a good joke. |
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| ▲ | glimshe 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Have cats been domesticated as of 2025? Last time I had a cat at home 10 years ago, it felt like he domesticated me! | | |
| ▲ | karmakurtisaani 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Truthfully, I was thinking about this while writing my comment. I settled on thinking on very loose definition of 'domesticated'. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | By any definition cats are “barely domesticated” and watching wild big cats makes that clear. We negotiated an uneasy truce that involved us changing more than the cat has. | | |
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| ▲ | leoc 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There is some evidence to support this idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_the_Cat . | | |
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