| ▲ | permo-w 5 hours ago |
| why are specifically the Danish so obsessed with pushing this through? it always seems to come back to them |
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| ▲ | Macha 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Partly it's because the Danish have the rotating EU presidency at the moment so they have the job of pushing things forward (which also means receiving the most lobbying). In the previous wave earlier in the year, it was the Polish for the same reason. Partly it's they don't have the same pro-privacy culture that say Germany and many of the eastern european countries have. People also think the current Danish PM was also offended by a former prominent Danish politician and cabinet minister who was arrested for CSAM possession. |
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| ▲ | permo-w 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I wonder how aware they are of the damage to the EU's reputation that they're continually creating by repeatedly bringing this back I think this theme of the EU, this lack of taboo against continually bringing unwanted laws until they pass by fatigue, it may well be the death of the institution as a whole. every time they try, every time people hear about it, more and more think worse of the EU, and unlike most western governments, the existence and function of the EU is actually severely vulnerable to what people think of it. no other major government takes as much reputational damage from laws that don't even pass, and the existence of no other major government is as vulnerable to reputational damage as the EU is right now. all it takes is another 1 or 2 major exits and the whole thing will slowly collapse, which is insanely sad | | |
| ▲ | Macha 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The UK government laundering unpopular regulations through the EU and then blaming the EU for them even when the UK had proposed and often championed then was definitely a factor in Brexit passing. Somewhat relevantly, the UK already has their own version of this legislation in the Online Safety Act which lead to a bunch of small-medium UK community sites closing and the likes of Imgur, pixiv and 4chan blocking the UK. | | |
| ▲ | liminvorous 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I believe 4chan is taking ofcom to court for trying to restrict their first amendment rights rather than blocking the UK, at least I'm still able to access it without a vpn. | | |
| ▲ | VWWHFSfQ 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > restrict their first amendment rights how is this relevant in the UK | | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 4chan is an American company with no presence whatsoever in the UK. 4chan doesn't even use normal payment processors, relying on crypto instead, so the UK can't even block payments made by UK subjects to 4chan. In light of this, why would 4chan comply? Contrary to the claim above, 4chan has not actually blocked UK users, and has no reason to do so. They did however get a lawyer to write up a letter telling the redcoats to go fuck themselves. | |
| ▲ | andersa 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A better question is how is whatever the UK is doing relevant for 4chan, which is an American company with no presence in the UK. | | |
| ▲ | permo-w 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | because 4chan's services are available to people residing in the UK the OSA is ridiculous and I hope it goes the same way as the last time they tried it, but this idea that US companies should be immune to domestic regulation in countries their services are available to is silly. even if that domestic regulation is silly. because otherwise the utterly encaptured regulatory environment of the US (plus Visa and MC) solely dictates the internet |
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| ▲ | mikkupikku 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You describe the EU as an undemocratic institution that brings about unwanted laws by fatigue, I understand that perspective. You also say that the collapse of the EU would be insanely sad. I also understand that perspective. What I don't understand is how somebody could have both of these points of view at once, in the same comment no less. | | |
| ▲ | permo-w 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | first of all, not everything is good or bad. the EU does masses of good and is probably [read: definitely] the most mature and healthy legislative body governing >100m people ever to have existed chat control has not passed, and undoubtedly will not pass in any deeply unpalatable state. this is the point of the unanimity requirement of the EU. most likely in the end we will get some kind of law giving additional search powers to police, perhaps allowing them to remotely "switch on" chat scanning for a suspect via specific court order, comparably to how they compromised on facial recognition secondly, to agree with the sibling commenter, I look at the results, not the process. the EU has incredible results by anyone's measure, and perhaps some of the culture there needs improvement, but this "it must be ultra-democracy or I don't want it" attitude just feels overly simplistic. and, honestly--and this is where I cannot understand anti-EU Europeans--without the EU, who are you expecting to represent your interests on the global stage? the US? all the other global powers would not bat an eyelid at corrupting democracy in a manner 10x worse than what we're talking about here | |
| ▲ | graemep 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A lot of people think democracy is a bad thing - or that too much democracy is a bad thing. A lot of people support what they want the EU to be rather than what it actually is. Applies in general - people can love their country without supporting its current government or constitution. |
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| ▲ | epolanski 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Lobbying. EU delegates and council members have to report their meetings with lobbyists. Palantir and Thorn lobbyists (just the most famous ones, but you can add another few dozens security and data companies) are recorded meeting many times with countless of them, including Ursula von der Leyen. It's really as simple as that, sales pitches convincing them of all the benefits of having more intelligence "to catch criminals (wink)". |
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| ▲ | rsolva 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | After reflecting on this a bit earlier this year, I came to the same conclusion; Palantir and maybe other like minded lobbying clueless politicians. It is a considerable weakness in the way laws are formed and voted on. | |
| ▲ | sph 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Palantir and Thorn lobbyists So, US interests? Which means the NSA? | | |
| ▲ | GuB-42 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No need to look that far. Palantir sells software for analyzing data, like Excel but on a large scale. If "Chat Control" passes, they will need software to analyze the data they collect, which is exactly what Palantir sells. It is just business. I don't know about Thorn but it looks like the same: they sell software that may be of use for implementing "Chat Control". | | |
| ▲ | flawn 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | "It is a just a business" is crazy to say if your founder was Peter Thiel and you ostensibly merged already halfway with the operating goverment (US, DoD) | |
| ▲ | spencerflem an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thiel also has a religious angle, where he thinks himself a god and imagines a perfect society where every human is watched at all times | | |
| ▲ | epolanski 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Will that constant monitoring include him? Because these billionaires get ultra touchy even if you track their private jets. |
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| ▲ | epolanski 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't want to fall in a conspiracy but to me it seems there's an entire sector interested into relaxing E2E cryptography and data access. Even if the NSA was not involved the same data and security companies would have the same incentives imho. |
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| ▲ | arlort 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The council of the EU operates on a rotating chair model (which gets called Presidency, sometimes Presidency of the EU) It's currently held by Denmark so it's the Danish delegation that's mostly doing the brokering etc for this semester |
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| ▲ | sillyfluke 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I guess it never hurts to try and find alternate ways of placating the US in order to make them get over their Greenland obession. |
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| ▲ | concinds 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The US pressured the UK to withdrawn encryption backdoors. | |
| ▲ | petcat 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't care about Greenland one way or another, but I find it funny that the Europeans are so visibly upset about this when the Danish took the territory without permission themselves and are now crying that an even bigger thief might want to come take it from them. | | |
| ▲ | sillyfluke 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is 1814 we're talking about, right? That's only a decade after Louisiana Purchase just for reference and before the Mexican-American war. I guess we might as well give all that back to the Mexicans? You can play this game to the end of time. There's a reason for statute of limitations in law. | | |
| ▲ | petcat 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 1953 is when Denmark asserted complete ownership of the territory and it ceased just being a "colony". That's not exactly ancient history. | | |
| ▲ | sillyfluke 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | So? The US prior to 1776, those specific colonies that became the US, were British colonies, are you claiming before that those colonies weren't considered British? | | |
| ▲ | petcat 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Britain lost their claim to those colonies when they lost a war to the Americans. The Inuit had no capacity to fight a war with Denmark. So it's the same situation except now Denmark is on the short-end of the power imbalance, and they're upset about it. | | |
| ▲ | tokai 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Its not the same situation. Greenland has self-rule, and are masters of planning and executing their own independence. They wouldn't have that if swallowed by the US. Its funny how you appear to be miffed about colonialism, while holding outdated views that paints the Greenlanders as poor natives that don't have any self-determination. | |
| ▲ | sillyfluke 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I find it a pointless rabbit hole to go down given the timeframe. I guess we disagree. We're not talking about the independence of the indigenous people at this current point in time, we're talking about Denmark relinquishing it by default because they colonized and annexed it imorrally. |
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| ▲ | voidfunc an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean if Mexico wants to come up here and invade us to take it back they can try, but it's not going to end well for them. |
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| ▲ | energy123 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Meanwhile they turn a blind eye to Turkey taking Cyprus because they need Turkey on side for the migration crisis and Ukraine. Everyone operates on self-interest but not everyone is smug about it. | | | |
| ▲ | scotty79 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Time is a factor. Taking land is what was done in the past. US wanting to do it now is as if Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA. It's a touchy subject and I think most of US wouldn't be exactly on board with this idea. Especially since putin shows us exactly what happens if you try. | | |
| ▲ | petcat 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA It's a bad example because the power balance doesn't make sense. I think you will have a hard time coming up with any example where USA would be on the receiving end of something like this. |
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| ▲ | MangoToupe 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hard to believe any of them actually take that seriously. What a bunch of babies |
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| ▲ | ggm 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I was told the proposal the Danes carried forward actually had its roots from Sweden. |
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| ▲ | budududuroiu an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| My conspiracy theory is because they’d probably give a lot of contracts to Palantir (see the UK giving NHS to Palantir on a silver platter), and the US basically threatening to annex Greenland recently |
